The most controversial kick in World Cup for a very long time was not over.
On Superrugby tonight Andre Watson was a studio guest. He explained the whole procedure. The ref could have called in the help of the TMO but both his assistent referees said the kick was miss. Watson said that if the TMO had to over rule he should have absolute no doubt that the kick was over. Keep in mind for a kick to be over it must cross the crossbar and not the pole. According to Watson the ball went over the pole and swerved left after it crossed the pole.
Also read this article by Frank Bunce.
Wayne Barnes always gets a lot of coverage in New Zealand because of what happened in that quarterfinal game in 2007 and he became the main talking point out of Wales’ 17-16 loss to South Africa on Sunday night.
But I thought Barnes had a good game, although he did miss a forward pass when Toby Faletau scored his try for Wales.
The kick that never was from James Hook certainly isn’t all his fault.
The assistant referees Vinny Munro and George Clancy should have been a lot more proactive in what happened.
If there was any doubt whether the kick was over or not – and surely there must have been some doubt – then they should have said to Barnes that he needed to let the TMO take a look.
Barnes was relying on them to make that call and they let him down.
I think Barnes is a good referee and the reaction he’s getting in New Zealand because of the South Africa v Wales game is because so many people are desperate to jump on him.
Yes, it was outrageous that he didn’t give a penalty to the All Blacks in Cardiff but we shouldn’t castigate him for what happened in Wellington just because of that.
If the All Blacks made the final I would have no problem in Barnes refereeing it.
I certainly don’t think there is bias in any way with him. He does well but it is unfortunate that he gets jumped on in this part of the world and the people here love to hate him.
It’s time for the people of New Zealand to just let go of what happened four years ago and move on.
* Frank Bunce played for the All Blacks in the 1995 World Cup
Comments
Well said Frank, the attitude of many members of the N.Z. media and their comments are appalling. He was castigated on TV last night despite TV3 doing the extended goal posts that showed the ball hitting the post and the TMO saying the decision would not have changed due to inconclusive evidence. Personally I think he is a very good referee and quite unobtrusive, more than perhaps be said for our own No1 ranked referee.
The kick from James Hook did not pass between the uprights at the correct moment onlu swerved back after it passed the cross bar!!! Yes Wayne Barnes is an idiot who does not know he’s laws. Last penalty could have cost the boks as North never released Hougie on the deck Go Bokke and New zealand fans give him Hell.
in another article this was said
A weak “statement” told us only that the officials had followed “correct protocol”. They could have used the TMO, but chose not to because collectively they believed the kick had missed. There would be no further comment.
Has IRB referees boss Paddy O’Brien been gagged because he disagrees?
At the very least, O’Brien could have answered some simple questions.
If the ball passes over the upright is it still a goal? The answer is no.
Can players request or appeal to a referee to use the TMO? No again, though Hook asked Barnes anyway without success.
And were the posts high enough? Yes, they were well within IRB regulations and no shorter than others around the country.
Referees do not deserve to be subject to ridicule or a witch-hunt. And for embittered Kiwis who want to vilify Barnes, how many referees would question the decision of two assistants on a goal kick?
Humans make mistakes and Hook’s kick is a prime example of how some calls are impossible to get 100 per cent right, regardless of technology.
If Barnes and his men remain so adamant that the kick missed and that the TMO was never needed that’s fine, but the rugby public, the Welsh in particular, deserve more than a short statement.
Well I CANNOT AGREE with the esteemed Mr Bunce that Barnes either had a good game or that he doesn’t favour one side over the other.
He allowed the Welsh to get away with murder in the loose.
They continually failed to enter “through the gate”, they continually played the ball on the ground in the rucks, and they continually failed to release the tackled player when on the ground. He even failed to penalise a Welshman who was lying on the ground after making a tackle who then tried to knock the ball out of a South African hand. At the time Barnes was ±3 metres away, so there was no excuse.
Barnes always seems to favour the NH teams over the SH teams in ANY game he officiates, and I’m not only talking about interpretation here.
The refereeing in general thus far has worried me somewhat with differing interpretations and a distinct lack of consisitency through some of the games.
When are the IRB going to get ALL of the worlds top ref’s together to sort out this NH / SH interpretation BS.
Further, the make up of the refereeing panel should really be questioned.
It’s blatantly apparant that the IRB have tried to spread the appointments equally between the different countries, and this has left some of the worlds top ref’s disenfranchised IMO. Mark Lawrence is a very good example. No can in all honesty tell me that Bryce Lawrence is a better ref’ than his namesake Mark.
The IRB, unfortunately have got it wrong again IMO.
If indeed the kick hit the imaginary line of the upright, then it was not over, according the laws of the game. However, the uprights are round, and the rugby ball is oval. The ball hits at the correct angle, and it can bounce over. But the decision is made, the touch judges and ref were sure in their minds that it did not go over the cross bar. I can’t remember where Barnes was standing for the kick. Was he directly in front of the posts? If so then we can be glad, because on TV it sure looked like it had gone over the crossbar
Scrumdown wrote:
My friend, last night Andre Watson our referees boss said the quality of the refs at the world cup is good, consistancy great etc. So they feel it is great , who are you to question them. Later in the program he answered a call about that last Welch penalty and said yes that penalty was wrong, and then he explained a bit about the first tackler doing this and that, almost trying to save his fellow referees union, wel thats how i saw it because he could just have said wrong finish and klaar.But at the end he admitted that Hougaart was never released.
Ok maar flokken net-net mis!
4@ superBul:
Indeed, who am I to question them. I’m just one of the poor bastids that forks out R 350 – 400 for test match tickets for myself and family when we want to go and watch our National team.
If everyone like me feels the ref’s, SARU and the IRB are a bunch of collective fools and decide to rather go and watch the local ring tennis championships instead, maybe they will all take notice of what we think.
I doubt it though. The Rugby heirachy world wide feel very little for us fools that pay to watch the games, and treat our opinions with the utmost contemp and disregard.
Andre Watson was a ref’ so surely he knows the rules better than I. After all, perhaps I can’t read English so well!!!!!
Bunch of boxes…….
@ Lion4ever:3 – It did look like it went over. But it never. Watch it again on slow motion, and do so many times. I rewinded over and over, and it looks like it goes way up and misses the right side of the post (just) and then once it was at the back of the pole it vears back to the left side of the pole. It was out no question. It went so fast so to a nake eye it from standing in front it would have looked in. Only the AR would have had a complete view standing from the back. That is where one could see it proper. Unless like me you watch it over and over on slow motion.
For me it was out. But at first I thought it went over. Only when I got back home could I replay that and watch it over a few times on slow motion and you can clearly see it was out. No question it was not in.
@ Puma: Typos up there. Just ignore.
What annoyed all of watching, was the forward pass that allowed Toby to score a try. That cost us 7 points. Boks should have won this game by 8 points to be exact. Meaning Wales would have walked away from this game without a bonus point.
Also Hougaard should NEVER have been penalised. Shocking reffing there I am afraid. If Hook got that one we would have been sunk. So for me justice was done when he missed.
@ Puma:9 – All of us. Just too tired typing these posts. Working way too hard these past few weeks.
Absolutely enjoyed both our tries. Good work by Frans Steyn. Such a powerful player, just crashed right over the Welsh players…lol. Also Hougaard was superb.
I for one not going to complain too much with our play. It was not perfect at all, but we all have to remember our players have not had much game time together. This game will have been what we needed.
I am serisouly worried about our Locks. When Victor went off my heart sank. We need him, but if he is not going to get over his injury by the Nambia game, the coaches need to think hard about this seriously. We don’t have a lot of time. So hoping Victor and Bakkies are back for the Nambia game. We need them both huge. But if they not going to be ready until the quarter it could be too late to bring someone by then. Cause whoever they bring will need game time and training time with the team. The latest Div can wait is until the Nambia game.
Gonna be a very, very tough decision by the coach. Just keeping our fingers crossed we get those Blood Brothers back in the team 100% over their injuries.
@ Puma:Meant – Namibia
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