Here goes, this is how I (Biltongbek) would break up the year.
During the Super 15 where 5 of our Unions are playing in this tournament it leaves the other 9 Unions plus the super Kings to play in the Vodacom cup.
Then the Springbok squad goes for conditioning and we don’t see them again in any domestic comp, so we will lose probably 45 players.
The super Kings then joins the 5 Super Unions for a Premier Currie Cup Competition to see who qualifies for next year’s Super 15.
Whilst the lower level Unions play in the Currie Cup 1st Division Competition.
The Boks would have 4 weeks rest and conditioning before the winter tours start and then straight into the Four-Nations, then another 4 weeks of rest and conditioning until the EOYT.
Now we just need to sort out, capped salaries for all the players, and even spread of finances by SARU and this should be sustainable.
| YEAR | SUPER 15 TOURNAMENT | VODACOM CUP | CURRIE CUP PREMIER | CURRIE CUP FIRST DIVISION | ||||||
| 5 SUPER UNIONS | 10 OTHER UNIONS | 6 UNIONS INCLUDING KINGS | 8 UNIONS | SPRINGBOKS | ||||||
| WEEK 1 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 2 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 3 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 4 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 5 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 6 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 7 | WEEK 1 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 1 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 8 | WEEK 2 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 2 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 9 | WEEK 3 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 3 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 10 | WEEK 4 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 4 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 11 | WEEK 5 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 5 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 12 | WEEK 6 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 6 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 13 | WEEK 7 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 7 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 14 | WEEK 8 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 8 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 15 | WEEK 9 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 9 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 16 | WEEK 10 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 10 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 17 | WEEK 11 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 11 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 18 | WEEK 12 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 12 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 19 | WEEK 13 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 13 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 20 | WEEK 14 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 14 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 21 | WEEK 15 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 15 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 22 | WEEK 16 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 16 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 23 | WEEK 17 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 17 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 24 | WEEK 18 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 18 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 25 | WEEK 19 | SEMI FINALS | WEEK 19 | SEMI FINALS | ||||||
| WEEK 26 | WEEK 20 | SEMI FINALS | WEEK 20 | FINALS | ||||||
| WEEK 27 | WEEK 21 | FINAL | ||||||||
| WEEK 28 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 29 | WEEK 1 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||||
| WEEK 30 | WEEK 2 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||||
| WEEK 31 | WEEK 3 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||||
| WEEK 32 | WEEK 4 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 1 | WINTER TOUR | ||||||
| WEEK 33 | WEEK 1 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 5 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 2 | WINTER TOUR | ||||
| WEEK 34 | WEEK 2 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 6 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 3 | WINTER TOUR | ||||
| WEEK 35 | WEEK 3 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 7 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 1 | FOUR NATIONS | ||||
| WEEK 36 | WEEK 4 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 8 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 2 | FOUR NATIONS | ||||
| WEEK 37 | WEEK 5 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 9 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 3 | FOUR NATIONS | ||||
| WEEK 38 | WEEK 6 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 10 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 4 | FOUR NATIONS | ||||
| WEEK 39 | WEEK 7 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 11 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 5 | FOUR NATIONS | ||||
| WEEK 40 | WEEK 8 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 12 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 6 | FOUR NATIONS | ||||
| WEEK 41 | WEEK 9 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 13 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 42 | WEEK 10 | POOL MATCHES | WEEK 14 | POOL MATCHES | ||||||
| WEEK 43 | WEEK 11 | SEMI FINAL | WEEK 15 | SEMI FINALS | ||||||
| WEEK 44 | WEEK 12 | FINAL | WEEK 16 | FINALS | ||||||
| WEEK 45 | WEEK 1 | EOYT | ||||||||
| WEEK 46 | WEEK 2 | EOYT | ||||||||
| WEEK 47 | WEEK 3 | EOYT | ||||||||
| WEEK 48 | WEEK 4 | EOYT | ||||||||
| WEEK 49 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 50 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 51 | ||||||||||
| WEEK 52 | ||||||||||
The basic idea is we reintroduce Unions and not Franchise systems.
The Super Unions and Boks will have a total of 35 possible matches to play which equates to 2800 minutes of rugby, so even with this system, players must still be rotated and managed.
The other unions will play a maximum of 36 matches for a total maximum of 2880 minutes and will also need to be rotated and managed. I we take in consideration that the maximum suggested time for a player is 1800 minutes then each player at any level should only play 23 matches.
The Super Unions would most likely contract around 40 players to carry them through when losing their springboks at the end of the super 15, the other Unions will still get away with a conrtracted squad of 30 players even with a rotation basis.
In total 240 contracted players by the 6 Super Unions
In total 240 contracted players by the minor Unions.
I have no idea what these guys are paid, but just as a thumb suck, you pay the minnow Union players R 400 000 per year and that would equate to R 96 000 000 needed for their salaries. If we assume the Super Union players are paid in the region of R 1 500 000 per year then we would need R360 000 000 for them and at R2 000 000 per contracted Bok player R 90 000 000.
So total players salaries we would need R 546 000 000. Perhaps you guys are more informed of the actual player salaries and could adjust the numbers.
Looking at average ticket prices and gate money.
Tests – R 350 X 7 tests X 50 000 spectators = R 105 000 000
Super 15 – R150 X 40 matches X 25 000 spectators = R 150 000 000
Currie Cup Premier – R 75 X 30 matches X 20 000 spectators = R 45 000 000
Currie Cup 1st division – R 30 X 56 matches X 5 000 spectators = R 8 400 000
Vodacom Cup – R 20 X 81 matches X 5 000 spectators = R 8 100 000
Gross income R 316 500 000.
Then you can still add merchandising and television broadcasting rights.
Well Morné and GBS, this is how it makes sense to me, your thoughts?
Biltonge,
Have not had time to study this… will look at it in detail in the morning…
Gaan nou eers VREEDSAAM wees!
Biltong & Morne
Good articles. Here is my 5c:
The new S15 is definately the best for Oz. They don’t have a domestic competition and are battling against Rugby Legue which is a year round competition.
The other issue is also money. Players in the NH gets apparantly much more than the SH, aside from if you are a All Black, Bok or Wallaby. All 3 national teams (aside from the Boks now thanks to Piet Snor) are good but depth below them is a problem. Those guys can make much more money in the NH. Another issue that players over here have mentioned is less traveling. Here if you play in an other country it is Ireland or France and you are back the following day.
To get back to the money, SANZAR probaly identified Oz as the growth area as the markets in NZ & SA are mature. More Oz viewers = more SANZAR money = more competitive salaries.
I am not saying this is the right solution, but I suspect this is the reasoning behind it.
Also, here in the UK I sometime follow the NFL and up to the play-offs this system is very simmilar to NFL (there you have 8 conferences with 4 teams each). I suspect they feel that, other factors aside, this will increase support in Oz for rugby Union.
Not sure if you guys are aware how the competitions work in Europe but you have your Domestic competition (Top 14, Magners Legue, Premiership) and then 2 week-ends in a row it is Heinicken cup and all the teams stop pleying their own competitions and pley the European comp. To put that in SA context last Saterdays the Bulls play the Cheetas in the Currie Cup and next Saterday they can play each other again, but this time in the Super 14/15.
Since I am on a roll here…..
I think the CC should be either the “new” Vodacom Cup but much longer so that it carries over after the 3 (4) Nations or it should be a very short comp with just 1 game against an opponent either at home or away. The top competition will be the 5 S15 teams and say 2 others. You would play 3 home CC games and 3 away games and the top 2 teams are in the finals.
No matter what format the CC takes, I think it is sadly a given that the Boks won’t play in it.
Lastly, I read somewhere that the Clowns in charge of SARU has sold the rights to the CC sometime ago and this is why there was so much hastle with setting up he new S15 comp.
Biltonge,
I have a number of fundamental problems with our current systems as well as your suggested systems, and I think Morné will share the same concerns…
I’m not trying to shoot you down, just trying to supply constructive critisism.
Here are my fundamental concerns:
1. Our Current system as well as the one you propose regards the “Lessor Unions” as that… less important, and that’s not good for their continued existence, sponsorships, player contracting, money… ect. This is a massive hurdle because a huge amount of our talent comes from the Platteland Areas, where rugby should remain strong, your proposal is not condusive to that. We’ve been battling for years now to keep the smaller Unions afloat and need to do even more as some are now even going into Liquidation (SWD Eagles), soon they might cease to exist…. there are rumours about 2 that I know about.
2. According to your suggestions our Springboks only play in the Super Rugby series and Tests, not in the Currie Cup. It devalues the Currie Cup (as it currently does as well to a large extent) and places the Unions who supply the big share of Springboks at a distinct disadvantage, causing them to rob the small Unions of even more players so that big Union depth becomes HUGE!
3. No provision is made for an extended Super Rugby Competition (Super 18 or whatever).
4. Your proposal looks almost exactly like our current system, no radical new innovation, apart for making space and provision for the Super 15 series in place of the Super 14 series. The purpose for Part 1, Part 2 and this Article of yours should be to move away from the current system to a better dispensation, where the Currie Cup remains a Premier Competition.
5. Your system provides no answers to yearly player minutes, in fact due to the increased Super Rugby Competition you have achieved little else but to add player minutes and/or take away the Bokke from their Unions more.
This is how I feel….
@ grootblousmile:
Cannot add anything, you basically summed it up.
There is a system that will work, but it will never happen. It means wrestling control of franchises away from SA Rugby, and let the regions themselves control it.
@ grootblousmile:
The obly way you can increase the importance of the “lesser” unions is to have all 14 unions play in one currie cup, thus 14 teams either playing home and away, which would increase the season to 26 weeks plus finals. There is no space for that.
The other option is to have one currie cup premier division with all 14 teams playing each other once as per the current Super 14 system.
There will be space for that.
The reason why I see no place for the springboks is because once the Super 15 or 18 is put inplace there is only enough time for Springboks to be conditioned and rested.
Even if you move the Currie cup around, when do you play your springboks, to add to this conundrum, if you want all the unions playing one premiership competition, the springboks will only increase the potential for these smaller unions to be blown by 100+ scores.
The fact is the Super 15 is cast in stone and everything else needs to work around it.
The only “change I can see if you want the smaller unions not to be devalued is to incorporate all the teams into one currie Cup Premiership division.
As far as the springboks are concerned, if they already with the super 15 and tests alone stand on a possible 2800 minutes of rugby, how can you still add to the work load to fit them into one or two games of currie Cup?
If you as an example decide to let the home and away fixtures of the super Unions count towards their fixtures for a currie cup, and then they have to continue after the super 15 by still playing home and away matches against the rest of the smaller unions you extend it by having to play an additional 9 teams twice, which equates to 18 additonal weeks plus semi and final. There is not enough time to do it.
Unless you reduce the number of unions once again by taking the weakest unions out, and that will devalue them even more.
So perhaps combining all unions into one Currie cup premier division playing each other once is the answer.
8@ biltongbek:
Have a very close look at my Comment No 3 on the “Part 2” Article…. those are my suggestions.
It makes provision for:
1. All of the 14 Unions play in ONE JOINT Currie Cup, up to a point where the worst 2 Unions sides fall out and later when it is reduced to only 6 strongest Unions – thus serving to get smaller Unions more viable and involved.
2. The Bokke play in the Currie Cup, apart from playing in Tests and Super Rugby. The Bokke only sit out of the Currie Cup only during the actual Test window, when smaller Unions are played.
3. The Currie Cup is not devalued, it is actually elevated back to it’s rightful status.
4. The Principle of Strenght vs Strenght comes through in the Currie Cup at the start and again towards the end.
5. Player minutes is managed well.
6. Talent should spread more evenly over Unions, because they play in a bigger and Premium competition structure.
7. All Sponsors get their exposure and share of the pie… the major Currie Cup Sponsor even for a longer duration, meaning more sponsorship income for SARU and therefore more money for SA Rugby.
@ grootblousmile:
OK, i have gone through it again, the two currie cup conferences (super unions against the top qualifyers) makes sense.
My question is, you would like the top six teams to play between the Four Nations and the EOYT, so you want the boks to be part of the Currie Cup in some form or another.
During the Super15/18 these teams already play with their springboks against one another, therefor why do you feel it necessary for them to play again.
I accept your system incorporates the smaller unions on a basis that is better for them.
but ultimately it is unlikely that they would qualify for currie Cup play offs anyway.
would it not be in the interest of the Springboks to rather rest, than be part of the currie Cup play offs?
10@ biltongbek:
At the moment the Springboks play in the last rounds of the Currie Cup anyway and with a bit less player hours according to my suggestions, they could play in the “Last 6 Stage” of the Currie Cup, because it would only entail a few games, not a full round-robin system again…
One should not force or preclude the Springboks from playing in the Currie Cup, rather manage them well. In other words decide if a specific Bok has been overplayed or suffers from clear fatigue (on a PER PLAYER BASIS), then let the fatigued guys sit out in that last bit of Currie Cup…. same applies to the End of Year Tours… fatigued players do not go on tour, simple as that.
I feel it is needed for strongest teams to compete for the Currie Cup, and let’s face it, the Springboks are the real draw card for crowds. The fewer Springboks who play at that stage, the more it devalues the Currie Cup.
Remember, a few Bokke might be quite fresh at that stage, specially those who do not have to take part in the last few Super rugby matches (also played after the Four Nations), seeing as their sides might have fallen out of the Super Rugby running at that stage already.
@ grootblousmile:
I would suggest something radical like playing our derby games with the young bright stars and save our hardened Boks for the NZ an Aus teams.
We must not play into the hands of the Antipodeans, we must rack up bonus points amongst ourself, bonus points, position ourself higher.
12@ superBul:
Mmmm, definately something to ponder… although, from each Conference 2 sides go through… and additionally the 2 best qualifiers go through as well (if I’m not mistaken)… so if our 3rd and 4th placed Super sides are the highest qualifiers, then we could theoretically have 4 teams in the top 8 in the last stages of the Super Rugby series.
It is however likely that we’ll have 2 or 3 sides there only….
Problem is, why would you rest fresh players who have played 1 or 3 or 5 or even 7 matches only in the season??? It just weakens the side without making sense.. I would think.
… but I like the way you are thinking… good lateral thinking.
@ grootblousmile:
Only 6 goes through, the winner of each conference and the other 3 will be the highest scorers , the 4, 5 and 6th placed team on the overall log.
So one country can have 4 teams in the last 6 , and the other 2 nations only their winner of their conference. It can even happen that one country end 1,2,3,4 and 5th and the other candidates in the last 6 even lower than them. But the conference winner will get a spot.
grootblousmile wrote:
Yeah depth will determine how you will be weakened.
Take the Bulls, only because i know all our players.
Locks we have at least 4 of the best 5 in SA, with our 5th and 6th locks also level par with the other South African locks. Would we be weakened by resting VM and BB this week, and then the next week rest FvdM and DR?
Scrum halves play either one the one week and then the other. The secret will be to have a core of players playing the next game. In other words dont try and have 2 different teams, but play our 1,2,3,4,5 9,10,12 two or 3 weeks together. Then phase out 4,5 and maybe 10 and 12 in game 4. How you do it will be the big thing. Only the cleverest coach will figure this one out. Or they can ask me 😆
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