This topic has been on but here is my views on this issue.
I find the IRB attitude, as reported in the following article (Wallabies face a fine if they disrespect the Haka), regarding the HAKA a little over the top and disturbing.
The article state in short that the Wallabies have been warned that disrespecting the All Blacks’ haka could result in a fine from the International Rugby Board.
The Australian Rugby Union (ARU) was recently forced to pay a £1000 (NZ$2128) fine to Rugby World Cup Limited after the Wallaroos, Australia’s women’s rugby team, advanced on the Black Ferns mid-haka before their World Cup pool match in England last month.
The Australian women were found guilty of moving several metres towards the haka. IRB tournament rules dictated that the team facing the haka must stay at least 10 metres on its own side of the halfway line, but the Wallaroos made the mistake of walking beyond that line.
There was also a warning that if the fine wasn’t paid, or if there were any repetition of such behaviour while the haka was being conducted, the ARU was liable to find itself at the centre of a misconduct case.
According to the Sydney Morning Herald there is no reference in the SANZAR tournament laws to player behaviour during the haka, but the warning is clear that in future IRB tournaments, such as next year’s World Cup in New Zealand, the haka must be treated with respect.
This is far from the first time the haka has caused problems between the two teams.
The 1996 Wallabies upset many New Zealanders when before the Wellington Test they decided to turn their backs on the haka and instead warmed up at the other end of Athletic Park. The tactic, which did not have the full support of the Australian players that day but was driven by team management, didn’t work as the Wallabies suffered their biggest loss to the All Blacks – a 43-6 thrashing.
South Africa has also walked up to the Haka (can’t remember the exact occasion) in a test and that actually magnified the entertainment value of the haka as a pre-match hors d’oeuvre.
Some New Zealanders have expressed sentiments to the extent that if you disrespect the haka in any way of form -like the crowd boo-ing or opponents walking up to the Haka or turning their backs on it- then by some sort of “magical force” you are doomed to lose. Now if that is the case (and I find this a little Neadertal or early child developmental stage thinking) then why the hell does the IRB need to define how the Haka should respected Haka? If a magical force are going to penalise disrespect then let the opponents react to the haka at their own peril.
If I was a NZ supporter and disrespect means magical enforced punishment then I would actually be happy if opponents do disrepect the haka.
Secondly, is the IRB also going to fine teams whose supporters disrespect the haka? Damm this is getting just a little to PC for my liking. The haka and how opponents react to it is part of the spectacle and adds to the occasion.
The haka is not some sort of religious offering to the gods that needs to be honoured in some sort of special way, it is a war cry and as such a challenge to the opponents. If somebody challenges me I should have the right to react to that challenge anyway I like, as long as it is within reasonable bounds of acceptable behaviour in this case because it is public event. Walking up to the Haka or turning my back on it is not in my view immoral behaviour or extreme disrespect. Walking away is a counter psychological challenge (to make them angry and hopefully prone to irresponsible action when the match starts) in the same way the AB’s try and psychologically install fear/awe in order make the opponents tentative (treat them with too much respect).Where is this PC rulings going to stop and what the hell makes the AB’s (the haka) so special that the International rugby board have to protect the haka?
There certainly is a long history behind the haka and it is the kiwi’s way of honouring the Maori culture and as such certainly a grand tradition and gesture.The haka is in essence a war cry, a challenge and in ancient times there was an unwritten and non-verbal agreement of respect by waiting it out or responding with another war cry before the battle start. Respect as such is therefore a courtesy gesture; it cannot be demanded or enforced.
The magical value of the haka or magical punishment for disrespect can of course not be proven unless you use anecdotal evidence and argue that no team that have disrespected the haka has ever won.
The AB certainly has some sort of emotional attachment with the haka and wants to do the haka just before the match starts and on no other time. A few years ago Wales wanted them to do the haka before the anthems and that unsettled the AB to the extent that they did it in the in the dressing room before the match started. Clearly they feel they get a psychological advantage from it by doing it just before the match starts.Rugby traditionalist’s from all countries (and that includes me) have a soft spot for the haka. The Arty types and traditionalist’s see it as a cultural piece of art and as such of cultural and historical value and therefore something to respect and protect.
Truth be told we have no evidence of magical effect(s) and/or psychological advantage. The haka is therefore nothing to fear. However, boo-ing it, or ignoring it, or turning your back on it is in essence an attempt to deflate it or to reduce its psychological impact.
And here is the critical point, for me.
The haka can only have psychological impact if you (as the opponent) react to it (allow it to impact you). By trying to deflate it’s power you actually give it power; you admit that it has some sort of effect on you.
My feeling therefore is that the best way to deflate its potential power is to watch is passively, showing no emotion.
Lastly, coming back to the IRB and its attempt to enforce respect. Any attempt to enforce respect with fines or by putting rules in the rule book/tournament rules will equate to favouritism.The risk of such measures is that it could actually generate spectator negativity. Teams might respect it (because they are forced to) but this could turn the tide in terms of how spectators view it.
For me, I think such measures are over the top. I like it as a spectacle, I value it’s historical and cultural significance and think that any open headed individual (spectator or opponent) would understand that the best way to deflate it is to not give it power by reacting towards it.
The haka is just a dumb little dance, how the hell can it be protected by law>
The Kiw;s are pathetic.
Now I have heard everything, or almost everything. Seriously, to fine another team if they disrespect the Haka? Come on….. who do they think they are? “Almighty” Blacks?
For such measures to be taken, they must have a lack in self confidence me thinks! But I do however enjoy the Haka and I would think it is just part of their game’s rituals, rather than something to being forced to respect. Yhe Haka is purely entertainment in my honest opinion! 😉
It is actually not the All Blacks/kiwi’s objecting it is the IRB.
This just shows once again the IRB is in bed with the All Blacks and they will prtect them no matter what!!
Its really starting to get on my nerves. Looks like we gonna meet them in the semi in next years RWC. Hope we give them a nice hiding in their own back yard…hoepfully the IRB will not make a rule against that!!.
Durban Bulle wrote:
I sometimes have that feeling too. Especially cosidering how the 2011 WC was awarded to NZ. Everyone thought it will SA or Japan but out of the blue NZ got it. THe old boyes club was hard at work to pull that one off.
Morning everyone, a very overcast and damn Durbs today.
McLook,
Good article. I did answer to this on the other Haka thread. So wont go totally into detail again.
I have always enjoyed the Haka and a AB game would not be the same without it. Then really think Teams facing it should never get fined if they choose to face the haka or turn around and warm up.
Agree with you there, if they fine teams for some reason for not respecting it, then I can tell you especially here in SA the supporters will do something to distract it. Probably all over the rugby world that will happen with supporters. So IRB have opened up a can of worms here I think. Or have they? Maybe after next year’s world cup maybe wont be much of a issue.
For today. Good luck to the All Blacks. I always support them when we are not playing them. Then again I have made some really good Aussie friends here too. So should really be neutral for this game.
a conspiracy is brewing, referees, yellow cards, world cup in NZ, don’t disrespect the Haka:………………
Don’t win the RWC in NZ
Maybe France will beat them in the first round and we wont meet them again.. But when we win the World Cup again we’ll be told it is empty because we did not face the chokers 🙂
Dis lekker om n Bok te wees 🙂
@ biltongbek:8 – hehehehe. You sounding a bit like our coach now…….. 😆
ABs have not asked the IRB to do anything yet – Wow – lots of bitter anti-New Zealand sentiment here.
ABs don’t demand the right to perform the Haka before each match – they don’t even demand the timing, all they ask is that once a schedule is agreed all parties stick to it. Wales did not, so ABs did the Haka in the change room & just got on with the game WITHOUT COMPLAINT & not one of them donned an arm band either.
Has it occurred to anyone that NZ won the right to host the 2011 because they put the best case forward supported by the efforts they have put into world rugby over the last 100 years despite being one of the smallest nations in the top 10 ? Or would you rather continue in the role of “victim” who lost out unfairly because of underhanded dealing ?
NZ has always held Bok rugby in the highest esteem but of late it seems that this is a one way regard.
@ Rugby_Princess:12 – Rugby Princess…hehehe. You seem a bit angry..LOL.
Can almost picture you, stamping your feet pointing your fingers and imagine you to be a tiny little thing too…hehehe.
Don’t worry about this it will settle down. I enjoy the Haka but really don’t want the other teams to be fined for challenging it. Why must the other team have to stand so far away from the haka?
Remember world cup 95? Boks came right up to the haka. NOW that was something to watch. A team facing it and really throwing out the challenge. Very exciting stuff. Both teams feeling the adrenalin then. Good stuff I say. IRB should not tell other teams how to challenge it, or if they don’t want to challenge it by standing about under the posts, that is up to the other team. The opposition should be able to challenge the haka. It makes it more interesting to watch both sides really.
IRB should stay out of this. They are interfering here. Don’t think this has anything to do with NZ but rather the IRB.
Now our lovely kiwi lady, you just stay relaxed and calm down. Put your feet up and get ready to watch your ABs playing in about a half hour from now.
I don’t know why this Non-Issue gets such publicity!!
All Blacks, continue to do the Haha, whichever version of it…
Oppostion, respect and face the Haka, whichever version of it…
Problem solved.
yebo all gogos, people shouldn’t get their knickers all in a twist about this.
Haka is being used by IRB to try and stamp their deteriorating authority down on the game they see as a business, is all.
I personally LOVE it when the opposition takes up the challenge visually, like someone grinning, the Boks advancing down the line, the Aussie women displaying their take on the challenge etc.
So if IRB wants to come to the party and keep traditions where it should be, they should stay the hell out of this. How teams face the challenge is up to them, period.
May the Aussies also advance to the 50m line today, i’ll personally cheer for them. Whether they have the b@lls to do it as their women team had, i don’t think so.
“people shouldn’t get their knickers all in a twist about this”
hehehehe….. I can just imagine this! Not a pretty sight me thinks….
@ Muurbal:
not at all…..
@ Puma:
Pumes, I have just grown tired of the AB bashing – this year everything has been their fault according to so many. Ref favouritism, IRB protectionism, not deserving the RWC, our Captain being called a cheat etc – I am just tired of it.
We are a tiny nation who continually punches above our weight – but no matter what we do it is never good enough – Eventually it grinds you down.
18@ Rugby_Princess:
It’s not so bad man…. harden up a bit.
There’s the minority who will hold radical views anywhere….
Most of us here think that the Haka is marvelous and should be cherished…
You are all complicating a very simple matter…. the haka should be respected, but without regulating it, simple as that.
Senseless speculation from one side saying that the IRB are favouring New Zealand but also just as senseless thinking that everybody has an axe to grind against the All Blacks or against the Bokke ect…
It shows disrespect to SA as world champions for NZ to beat the shit out of us, I demand NZ be fined.
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