352 Responses to The Rugby Championship: South Africa vs Argentina – Live Game Article

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  331

  Nama on 9 August 2015 at 12:38 am

  @ McLook:
  “What I saw from watching the last 20 minutes of the match on the replay on rugby channel was that we got beaten at the breakdowns.”

  So, in short, we need a hard man in the loose trio. Can’t play 3 “fetchers” in the loose trio and expect to dominate the breakdown, can you? Or what’s your verdict on that?
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  332

  McLook on 9 August 2015 at 12:40 am

  Nama wrote:

  @ McLook:

  It is not so much about the coaching imo. It’s more about the philosophy about the game that certain coaches have.

  HM believes in big, strong and stupid players.

  All our 1st tier coaches have that approach. You also see it in schoolboy rugby. How do you cange it if you don’t bring expertise from outside the country. The headcoach dictate so a consult with other ideas will be useless/ineffective. A good start would be to appoint international coaches at curriecup and S15 level.

  I’ll take someone like Gatland or Joe Schmidt (not sure about spelling of the Ireland coach surname) anyday as Springbok coach.
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  333

  Nama on 9 August 2015 at 12:43 am

  When he announced his team, HM said that we “have to win this game”. That’s why he selected Pollard ahead of Lambie. One could’ve read that as him saying that if we started with Lambie, we would lose.

  Now, we’ve lost. What now?

  Do we blame Pollard or HM’s stupidity?

  I think the latter because Pollards does not select himself.
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  334

  Victoriabok on 9 August 2015 at 12:43 am

  Charo wrote:

  he shied off from english premier league rugby because it was outside of his comfort zone.
  so he found a home at a comfortable place like the blue bulls.
  when pdv was appointed bok coach, hm gained a cult following amongst the afrikaner supporters as the “real” coach and the saviour of our bok team. this had been fermented earlier when jake white was recalled to explain the bok performances. clearly the n.tvl element of sa rugby was in full flight to get their man and perceived savior of the national team.
  however, when he stooped to appoint useless assistants like johan van graan and other n.tvl staff, the real bok supporters started seeing the pattern, the comfort zones – all typical of the afrikaner culture.

  Maybe a successful, English speaking coach from the Last Outpost like Ian McIntosh?
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  335

  McLook on 9 August 2015 at 12:48 am

  Nama wrote:

  @ McLook:

  So, in short, we need a hard man in the loose trio. Can’t play 3 “fetchers” in the loose trio and expect to dominate the breakdown, can you? Or what’s your verdict on that?

  Agree. Two fetchers is good against Ozzie, Wales and Ireland (maybe NZ). But when you play teams like England and Argentina who is game is based on scrum dominance and physically dominating the breakdowns the you need guys with ‘boude en blaaie’ to counter them in those departments. We had no pressence at the collisions in this match.
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  336

  Victoriabok on 9 August 2015 at 12:48 am

  McLook wrote:

  HM believes in big, strong and stupid players.
  All our 1st tier coaches have that approach. You also see it in schoolboy rugby. How do you cange it if you don’t bring expertise from outside the country. The headcoach dictate so a consult with other ideas will be useless/ineffective.

  School rugby is structured to the biggest players advantage

  The big players get bursaries from the top schools and gets selected to play provincial schools rugby and then again gets drafted into the Unions Rugby Academies

  By the time the Bok coach gets them he’s got his pick of the biggest but not the smartest or most skilled players in the country
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  337

  McLook on 9 August 2015 at 12:54 am

  Interestingly Oz gave Argentina a hiding with out big men. The played a faster smarter game and avoided big collisions in the midfield. Make sure you get them on the ground and rip the ball out to top their enterprise quickly and when you run avoid smash-up in the midfield. That took the big Argie guys out of the game. We need to start thinking differently about the game.
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  338

  McLook on 9 August 2015 at 12:56 am

  Victoriabok wrote:

  McLook wrote:

  School rugby is structured to the biggest players advantage

  The big players get bursaries from the top schools and gets selected to play provincial schools rugby and then again gets drafted into the Unions Rugby Academies

  By the time the Bok coach gets them he’s got his pick of the biggest but not the smartest or most skilled players in the country

  Yes, it’s a viscious cycle.
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  339

  McLook on 9 August 2015 at 12:59 am

  vicious
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  340

  Nama on 9 August 2015 at 1:14 am

  @ Victoriabok:
  Precisely.

  I would like to see how the next Bok coach (HM?) is going to treat the current SA School FH. Imo, he is way more talented than Pollard will ever br but he is much smaller. Hope the Sharkies will bring him through nicely in the next 3/4 years.

  @ McLook:
  “The played a faster smarter game and avoided big collisions in the midfield.”

  That’s where the Aus team always beat us. Playing smart rugby. Just look at PdV’s record vs the AB as oppose to Aus. We tend to want to play even “harder” if the other team come hard at us instead of playing smarter.

  Soort van: Moer my…ek gaan jou harder moer.
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  341

  Nama on 9 August 2015 at 1:48 am

  Oh yes…

  CONGRATULATIONS Argentina,
  the truth is…
  We were never better
  you really moered us,
  all through our wild ways,
  our own arrogance
  we never thought that
  you had it in you
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  342

  Loosehead on 9 August 2015 at 7:10 am

  The Boks are a shambles under HM.

  I don’t see the usual suspects calling for him to resign or be fired like they did to RWC2007: winning coach Jake White.

  They called him Jake the Snake. Arre still calling HM coach?
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  343

  Stormersboy on 9 August 2015 at 9:32 am

  Nama wrote:

  @ Victoriabok:
  “We hype up young players too much at school level, so much in fact when they arrive at senior level they think they just need to show up and the game is won. Pollard has been hyped up for so long he believes it.
  He can have moments of brilliance and win a game on his on, but mostly his flyhalf play has been average or below average.”
  At last, somebody sees the light. You can’t nominate somebody at the age of 16 to become a “future great”. He has to prove himself at senior rugby first.
  Pollard’s performances as a starting fly half thus far:
  2014:
  vs Scotland (h): good …in a dominating Bok team.
  vs Arg (h): kak
  vs Arg (a): kak
  vs AB (a): good
  vs Aus (h): average
  vs AB (h): very good
  vs Ire (a): PATHETIC
  vs Aus (a): average
  vs AB (h): average
  vs Arg (h): not good
  Our 1st choice WC fly half!!!
  But of course, all we are “allowed to remember about him, is his two tries against the AB last year. He booked his Bok place for the next 5 years with those tries. Or at least, as long as His Royal Heynekriek is still the coach. Which may well be until 2019, at least.

  Well summed up. I am not a fan.

  Elton should, as the form flyhalf, been given an extended run (with Faf as his half-back partner, equally in form) to carry his form into the WC. Simple.

  Pollard was out of form in an out of form team, and 3 tests later nothing has changed.

  At this stage we need to just do what we can and hope for a extra-ordinary performance in the QF’s against Aus (if we get that far)
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  344

  BrumbiesBoy on 9 August 2015 at 9:59 am

  I see Hash handed out the team jerseys.

  That explains the cricket score.
  
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  345

  Pietman on 9 August 2015 at 10:11 am

  Victoriabok wrote:

  I’ve always thought Heyneke was the best man for the job, but after today we know he’s not.
  Granted he had to deal with a lot of injuries especially key players injured at critical times

  He keeps playing players out of position
  He brings back unfit players before they’re ready

  We will be luck to win all our pool games at the World Cup. Heyneke better phone Barend now for a contract at the Bulls, after the WC they won’t even take him

  Jean de Villiers is nice guy and a good captain, but to break up the exiting Allende/Kriel combination?

  Jean is good on defence but there’s a reason why the Stormers never scored a lot of tries in Super Rugby.
  They never did with Jean/Fourie or Jean/De Jong or Jean/Allende, why would it be different at Bok level?

  He’s also injury prone, will his six million Rand knee last the whole tournament?

  Is it worth it to take him to the WC simply because he’s the captain?

  We hype up young players too much at school level, so much in fact when they arrive at senior level they think they just need to show up and the game is won. Pollard has been hyped up for so long he believes it.

  He can have moments of brilliance and win a game on his on, but mostly his flyhalf play has been average or below average.

  You can afford it on fullback with Willie, he has two wings to help him if he makes mistakes

  But your flyhalf must be solid, always no exceptions

  Our front row has been a penalty machine for the opposition the whole season, we can’t coach front rows how to scrum anymore

  We’ve been missing our big ball carriers a lot the whole Championship. I don’t think Whiteley is good enough at test level, he disappears like Spies

  I’ve never thought we’d lost to Argentina, and if we did it would be with a point or two in some Cowtown in Argentina, not by a big margin in SA

  As for Argentina, I’ve always maintained we’re picking a rod for our own arse by letting them play in the Championship. They have always been competitive at the World Cup, remember 2007?

  Now they are used to playing the big boys yearly, they are going to be a hard nut to crack at the WC

  Great post VicBok! Let the truth be told.
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  346

  MacroPolo on 10 August 2015 at 12:39 pm

  Ben-die-Bul wrote:

  299: kies enige tyd vir vet Fransie bo wille Willie wat self nie weet wat hy volgende gaan doen nie.

  😀

  Hoop HM gee die ouens wat terugkom van beserings game time in CB.

  Is nie man heyneke se vir hom presies wat om te doen waarokal hy op die veld is 😆
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  347

  MacroPolo on 10 August 2015 at 12:43 pm

  McLook wrote:

  Interestingly Oz gave Argentina a hiding with out big men. The played a faster smarter game and avoided big collisions in the midfield. Make sure you get them on the ground and rip the ball out to top their enterprise quickly and when you run avoid smash-up in the midfield. That took the big Argie guys out of the game. We need to start thinking differently about the game.

  Scott fardy is a big boy and probbly one of the form loose forwards in TRC this year, he was phenominal yesterday.
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  348

  MacroPolo on 10 August 2015 at 12:46 pm

  Im really disappointed in Schalk saturday numurous times he got the ball and run from 10 meters straight into the oposition like jackpot, might as well have selected jacque potgieter at 8 yesterday.
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  349

  MacroPolo on 10 August 2015 at 1:04 pm

  Charo wrote:

  heyneke needs to grow some cojones.
  he is a good coach but is too soft for this type of environment.
  he shied off from english premier league rugby because it was outside of his comfort zone.
  so he found a home at a comfortable place like the blue bulls.
  when pdv was appointed bok coach, hm gained a cult following amongst the afrikaner supporters as the “real” coach and the saviour of our bok team. this had been fermented earlier when jake white was recalled to explain the bok performances. clearly the n.tvl element of sa rugby was in full flight to get their man and perceived savior of the national team.
  however, when he stooped to appoint useless assistants like johan van graan and other n.tvl staff, the real bok supporters started seeing the pattern, the comfort zones – all typical of the afrikaner culture.
  to us, the writing was on the wall.
  the boks, under an afrikaans coach, had never won the rugby world cup.
  the chances of changing this trend seem slim.
  don’t hold out any hope for the 2015 rwc – i hope i am wrong.

  No south african team has won superrugby with an english coach either….meaningless stat
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  350

  Stormersboy on 10 August 2015 at 1:41 pm

  @ MacroPolo:
  Kitch Christie?
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  351

  grootblousmile on 10 August 2015 at 11:22 pm

  350 @ Stormersboy:
  That was Semi-Super Rugby way back when… hehehe

  
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  352

  Stormersboy on 11 August 2015 at 7:24 am

  @ grootblousmile:
  Still a great victory! 🙂