Los Pumas (9) 12 / 26 (20) Springboks (Final Score)
The Argentinian Pumas and South African Springboks did battle in a Rugby World Cup warm-up match at
Vélez Sarsfield, Buenos Aires at 21:40 SA Time (16:40 ARG Time, 19:40 GMT).
This was the live match discussion Article.
The match was broadcast LIVE on SuperSport 1 & M-Net on TV in SA.
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Scorers:
Los Pumas:
- Penalties – Nicolas Sanchez (4)
- Drop Goals – 0
- Tries – 0
- Conversions – 0
Springboks:
- Penalties – Pat Lambie (3)
- Drop Goals – Pat Lambie (1)
- Tries – Bryan Habana (1), Lwazi Mvovo (1)
- Conversions – Pat Lambie (2)
Teams:
Argentinian Pumas |
South African Springboks |
| 15 August at 21:40 SA Time | |
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Referee: Glen Jackson (New Zealand)
Assistant Referees: Romain Poite (France), Mike Fraser (New Zealand)
TMO: George Ayoub (Australia)
Scrumhalf now remains our biggest conundrum!
grootblousmile wrote:
Agree we out played them at the collisions; forcingvthem back. This has been our problem against them in the past; especially over there in Argentina. We fronted up just a pity we needed to lose against these buggers before that happened.
323: ja, ons grootste probleem bly skrummie en heelagter. Waar gaan ons ‘n heelagter kry wat die beste eienskappe het van beide Willie en Zane ?
Springbok Rugby World Cup Squad only to be announced on 28 August!!
@ grootblousmile: he didn’t have a bad game at all. Question is: is Matfield going to deliver more value than either one of Lood, PsD and Etsabeth. Only three locks will go. 9 compulsory front rowers = 3 second rowers. That’s the question around selecting Matfield. That said; I think he’ll go at the expense of Lood sadly.
@ grootblousmile:
Agree that scrumhalf remains our biggest problem. Klein Gysie is kak, Reinach not much better, and it seems daft to pin one’s hopes on FdP. Even though Hougaard has his shortcomings as a scrumhalf, he’s probably the best we’ve got.
@ McLook: I had no problem with the choicev of Kirschner for todays Test. And he didn’t let me down. Willie is a game-breaker. No doubt about it. but he can also cost you a Test. That’s the kind of player he is. Zane is as solid as a rock. that’s just how he is. Two completely different players. Both offer value.
@ Tassies:
Lood made an impressive comeback (just about the only Bok who played well against the Argies in the previous game); would be rather unfair if he is left behind to make place for Matfield.
okay I’m outta here guys. Thanks for the chatter. Was lekker. So was the result. Cheers.
My Springbok Rugby World Cup Squad would be:
1. Loosehead Props: Tendai Mtawarira, Trevor Nyakane… and maybe Steven Kitshoff too, in which case I’d drop Frans Malherbe because Trevor Nyakane can play either side with ease.
2. Hookers: Bismarck du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Schalk Brits
3. Tighthead Props: Jannie du Plessis, Marcel van der Merwe, Frans Malherbe (if Steven Kitshoff is not selected)
4 & 5. Locks: Eben Etzebeth, Victor Matfield, Lood de Jager
6. Openside Flanks: Francois Louw, Heinrich Brüssow
7. Blindside Flanks: Willem Alberts, Marcell Coetzee (if he recovers from injury)
8. Eightman: Duane Vermeulen (if he is fit), Schalk Burger
9. Scrumhalves: Ruan Pienaar, Fourie du Preez, Francois Hougaard
10. Flyhalves: Handré Pollard, Pat Lambie, Morné Steyn
11. Left Wing: Bryan Habana
12 & 13. Centres: Damian de Allende, Jesse Kriel, Lionel Mapoe
14. Right Wing: Lwazi Mvovo, Cornal Hendricks
15. Fullbacks: Willie le Roux, Zane Kirchner
Zane Kirchner can double as a winger, in a dire need.
Francois Hougaard can double as a winger, left or right.
Pat Lambie can double as a fullback.
Handré Pollard can play inside centre at a stretch.
The only player I cannot find a place for, although I wish I could, is Pieter-Steph du Toit.
I will definately NOT take Oupa Mohoje or Siya Kolisi, unless Marcell Coetzee does not recover from injury, in which case I would select Siya Kolisi.
Cobus Reinach would not make my squad and it’s a pity we did not see Faf de Klerk once in a Test to have been able to judge how he would have gone. Rudy Paige would not make my squad.
I would leave Jean de Villiers right here in South Africa… he is not up to full speed, unless he gets quite a bit more game time in the Currie Cup and comes right.
I’d gamble on Fourie du Preez, because we have a dire SCRUMHALF problem!
I’d now send a few players back to their provinces to get needed game time: Steven Kitshoff, Pieter-Steph du Toit, Jean de Villiers, Siya Kolisi, Oupa Mohoje, Warren Whiteley, Cobus Reinach, Rudy Paige, Frans Steyn, Lionel Mapoe, Cornal Hendricks, JP Pietersen, Lwazi Mvovo.
OK, I’m outa here!
Defining moment in the match was int the 2nd minute already, when Eben came out of nowhere to take Van Imhoff out on the corner! If the Pumas had scored there, it would have set the tone for a completely different game.
!!
Lambie, Mvovo and Kirchner came through strongly, Kirchner has to start in the UK, with le Roux as impact player in the last 30 minutes.
Mvovo is head and shoulders above Hendricks and JPP.
Lambie and Jantjies are our best at flyhalf for the time being, and there is only one scrumhalf, Francois Hougaardt. What was Heyneke thinking dropping this guy from the squad!!!
Pienaar to slow, and dumb, sorry….a man with his experience carrying the ball loosely in his right hand on his way to score in the left corner
Trevor and Beast were very good up front, and our front row will improve with Bissy and Jannie there as starters.
Adriaan Strauss has lost his mojo, he needs to go, Schalk Britz is the new kid in town, also because of his invaluable experience gained up north over the last three years.
Duane Vermeulen and Alberts both will beef up the team.
So, Heyneke may have a plan, I hope, all is not lost, yet.
And for crying in a bucket, get rid of those white jerseys!
I could hardly follow the match the first 30 minutes in the glaring sunlight, and the poor camera work of the Argie tv producers. Give me SuperSport anytime!
@ Pietman:
Typos..sorry Puma…sitting in the traffic, passing time
grootblousmile wrote:
I’ll go for kitshoff; leave Malberbe.
PSDT as no 7 flank; he adds back-up at lock. Schalk and Louw can also play 7 and PSDT can be used as impact player on lock or flank. He adds beef to the pack; he needs to go.
Hougaard had his chances and was shyte. Why include him again? Morne Steyn OMG please that is going back to something that we have tried to make work against all logic so many times that it borders on inanity. If we need a third flyhalf then go for Jantjies. Why Mapoe ahead of Serfontein? It makes no sense. Why invest two years in a player and then drop him for a player that only played cc rugby. In what way is Mapoe better than Serfontein? If Mapoe offer more flair then yes but why was he not developed? As a coach HM must have seen something in Serfontein to select him in the first place. To drop him now is admitting he made big judgement error; so big that he select a Cc player over somebody that had to prove himself against much tougher opposition.
@ grootblousmile: @ 340
You have gone and dropped the Bok captain.
No ways is that going to happen.HM has nailed his colours to the mast.
Don’t think Marcel Coetzee will be ready in time for the WC. Expect to see PSDT’s name there. HM is a huge fan of his.
If HM takes 3 locks, PSDT will be expected to cover as blinside flank/lock.
Even though the record books will show we played Argentina twice this year and won one and lost one, Argentina will be the happier side with these results.
Our record to the buildup of the WC doesn’t make for good reading, but neither did the record to the build ups to the 2007 and 2011 W Cups.
The problem this year is the fitness, or lack thereof, of our elite players. We only managed to score points in the last quarter against Argentina in the game we lost.
Is one month enough to get our players fit enough to last and play a full 80 minutes, or even potentially 100 minutes?
The other issue is whether HM at this stage even knows who his best players are. Yesterday’s win wasn’t due to his selection genius, the majority of the side was only selected because of pressure from outside or injury to his first choice players.
And the fact that the Boks were desperate as hell not to lose for a second time against a team we are expected to beat. Where was that desperation last week?
Why do the players only seem to gee themselves up when we face the Kiwis and Poms?
In the 11 tests that the Bokke played since Morne Steyn was dropped,including last night’s, Handre Pollard started 7 games at FH and Patrick Lambie 4.
Of the 7 games that Pollard started, the Boks lost 5 and won 2. One of those victories came after Lambie came on as a substitute for Pollard and slotted over a long range penalty in the last minute of the match against the AB at Ellispark last year. If not for that, it would’ve been 6 losses in 7 starts for Pollard.
Lambie started the other four of which the Boks won 3. His only loss came against Wales where he had a poor game. However, he was replaced by Pollard in the 57th minute with Wales leading by 12 – 6. That also happened to be the final score which means that Pollard did not make much of an impact in the 20+ minutes that he was on.
The question now is this: Who is HM’s 1st choice FH for the RWC?
HM clearly has his favourite but the stats just does not back him up. Will he be able to put his emotional attachment to his winderkind aside and do the right thing for Bok rugby?
@ nortie:
Hi Nortie. How’s things going?
Nama wrote:
Well, and you Nama?
Glad to see you back and posting 😀
Yeah… I missed the discussions/banter…even the odd heated “debate.”
What did you make of the Boks performance? What a try by Mvovo, hey? Makes Jesse’s selection at wing last week even more odd.
Agree with you when you say: “The other issue is whether HM at this stage even knows who his best players are.”
It does not seem that way. Then on top of it, players like Mvovo, Lambie, PSdT and Kirchner, who are clearly not 1st choice, threw some spanners into the works with good performances. In Kirchner’s case, a solid performance unlike tref en trap Willie.
I see the Pollard vs Lambie debate is in full swing around the country
Like most of you I am pleased with Lambie’s composure and he would get the nod ahead of Pollard for me, but I would have played Elton from the beginning.
The but BUT here is the difference in forward dominance from yesterday compared to last week.
Lambie played (very well) behind good forward dominance, so you cannot compare the 2 performances, last week we took a caning upfront. The intensity levels were vastly different from the Boks too.
Still, well played by the Boks, I would say that the good news is:
Our 2nd choice Bok front row looks solid, even though it was against a weakened Argie scrum.
PSDT is up to pace and will be an asset at 7, 4 or 5.
Jesse/ Damian should be the first choice combo at 12/13
Lwazi looks miles better at wing than JPP (or Kriel)
Zane isn’t out of place at 15
@ Nama:
Can’t really comment on the matches itself, have stopped watching the games and am in no hurry to reconnect the DSTV 😆
Maybe after the WC it might be worth it to reconnect for next year?
@ nortie:
Stick it to The Man!!!
Attachment:
@ Stormersboy:
Ha ha, yes, I agree.
Maybe the next Bok coach and team in stills enough confidence?
@ Stormersboy:
“Lambie played (very well) behind good forward dominance, so you cannot compare the 2 performances, last week we took a caning upfront. The intensity levels were vastly different from the Boks too.”
True that. But remember that we are not looking to compare the last two games. We are looking at overall performance.
Did Pollard not play behind “good forward dominance” and a Bok team playing with high intensity levels in our matches against Aus and NZ in the 1st two rounds of the RC? How did he perform in those matches? To my recollection, average to poor.
@ nortie:
Can’t say I watched too much of it either. Just ha the odd glance.
We were chatting away till the early hours of the morning since most of my family members were here for the funerals that I’ve told you about. They’ve departed an hour or so ago to Cape Town, Upington, Kimberley, Johburg, Windhoek.
@ Nama:
If Steyn wasn’t on paternity leave, would Lambie even have gotten this opportunity yesterday?
Obviously HM would tell anyone within earshot that it was always his intention to play Lambie at 10 in this game.
But I have long since stopped believing what that snake oil salesman says.
@ Nama:
I’m not trying to defend Pollard at all. Would be my 3rd or 4th choice for Bok 10, but I wouldn’t compare the 2 back to back weeks.
As you say, there are enough crap performances over the past year to compare to.
357 @ Nama:
Strange how quickly one stops caring about the games once you don’t get to watch it.
I don’t even bother looking for a pub or place to watch to be honest.
R700 a month to watch the shit the Boks dish up is not worth the money to me anymore, and it was only because of the rugby that I was subscribed, the rest of the channels is just as shit and only repeats after repeats.
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