Francois Steyn
SANZAR, the controlling body for Southern Hemisphere rugby, moved swiftly to defuse the storm that erupted in the wake of Springbok Francois Steyn’s 5-week ban.
A SANZAR appeals committee – chaired by Terry Willis (Australia), who was assisted by Nigel Hampton (New Zealand) and Robert Stelzner (South Africa) – slapped the ban on the Sharks utility back after a hearing earlier this week.
Steyn, who was Red-Carded for his lifting tackle on Aaron Cruden in the Sharks’ 12 / 11 win over the Chiefs on 21 March, was cleared by South African judicial officer Jannie Lubbe at the original hearing on 23 Match. He also expunged Steyn’s Red Card.
However, SANZAR felt strongly about the message sent out by the result of the original hearing and appealed.
That hearing, which took place on Tuesday this week, found Steyn guilty and suspended him up to, and including 3 May.
In reaction to the fall-out to their appeal and subsequent ban of Steyn, SANZAR said they felt Lubbe made a ‘clear error of fact and law’.
The public outcry aimed at SANZAR hinted at ‘inconsistency’ in how SANZAR treat South African players – when compared to their New Zealand and Australian counterparts.
The 2 Sharks players – captain Bismarck du Plessis (4 weeks for kicking an opponent) and Steyn (5 weeks after the SANZAR appeal) – were both handed substantial bans in the wake of the spiteful encounter.
Yet 2 Chiefs players – Liam Messam (guilty of choking an opponent, but not banned) and Hikawera Elliot (1 week ban for dangerously charging into the back of an opponent) – got off with proverbial slaps on the wrist.
However, SANZAR said they are all “very different” cases.
SANZAR also provided a briefing of the reasons behind the decision to appeal and subsequently ban of Steyn.
“Under World Rugby Regulation 17 the tournament organiser has a right of appeal,” a SANZAR spokesman said.
“As a result, SANZAR has this right in its own rules.
“The right of appeal will only rarely be exercised as there is a threshold that must be met. SANZAR cannot appeal simply because it doesn’t like a particular decision or because SANZAR would have imposed a different sanction than the judicial officer had SANZAR been the decision maker hearing the case.
“The onus is on SANZAR to prove that the judicial officer made a CLEAR ERROR OF FACT OR LAW in reaching his decision and therefore the decision was wrong.
“What differentiated this case from others is that the judicial officer ruled that there was no foul play, that the referee had made an incorrect decision in issuing a Red Card and that the Red Card should be expunged from the player’s record.
“In SANZAR’s view, he made CLEAR ERRORS both of FACT AND LAW in making the findings he did and the judicial officer’s decision would cause real doubt as to how these type of tackles should be treated by referees, citing commissioners, judicial officers and ultimately those playing and coaching the game.
“Player safety is paramount. Tip tackles in breach of Law 10.4(j) have a high risk of serious – or even catastrophic – injury and need to be eradicated from the game.
“For this reason, having considered all the evidence, SANZAR reached a view that the original decision by the judicial officer was wrong and SANZAR exercised its right of appeal.
“The appeal committee consisted of 3 highly qualified and very experienced Judicial Personnel (1 from each SANZAR country).”
SANZAR also said the appeal committee’s full written decision will be available in the coming days and this will provide the full rationale for the decision it has reached.
rugby365
@ nortie: all good points Nortie. I have no argument. Except to point out…….Frans has done some truly incredible things in his short life. As they say: “Form is temporary. Class is permanent”.
26 @ ryecatcher:
Also Rye, he wasn’t the first, and won’t be the last player to have been sent off in front of hostile crowds….Warburton was sent off in a crucial WC game in 2011, yet, although upset, didn’t react petulantly.
It’s seldom that one sees a professional player either clapping hands at the “hostile” crowd or laughing when being sent off.
Both those reactions,IMO, show that he doesn’t respect the ref or his decision, which is fine, but you don’t show that dissent for the whole world to see….those things don’t sit well with the powers that be…and who knows, maybe a two week ban is changed to a 4 week ban because of something he could have kept to himself until he got to the change room. Then he could, out of the public eye, break the change room down.
That’s what cricketers do…they get fined for showing dissent, but once in the sanctuary of the change room bats fly and things get smashed
@ nortie:
Come on pal. Non reaction of Bissie due to
confusion over decision.
Reaction by Frans due to 70+ minutes of derision.
Not comparable Try to recognise the logic.
As Tassies said,(How can one not like a guy with that
nic) his is a talent that has been badly managed.
Regards.Rye
@ Tassies:
Enjoy the trip….be safe….and pop in occasionally to update about where you are and to make us jealous.
Safe travels
33 @ ryecatcher:
No one copped more abuse at Newlands than Naas Botha.
Frans is not the first, nor will he be the last, to cop abuse down there.
It was within his right to give it back….hell, he could have shown them up yours and it could be justified, but, and this is the question…..did it do him any good in this case?
Did the panel look at his reaction, plus the one after the red, and even his tirade against the ref last week to overturn the one Force try….and think, well, clearly this guy 1) doesn’t respect the ref and his call and 2) well, clearly he doesn’t seem remorseful for his actions.
Those are the things that might have caused him to get 4 weeks.
Of course, this is merely my opinion, but looking at those games, those are things that stand out to me
@ nortie:
“His tirade against the ref”.Pointing out a clear case of
obstruction.And “Pope Innocent,s” Messam’s
continual bleating during the match.Worked for him
didn,t it?. Their respective sanctions leave a sour taste So perhaps we should eliminate that particular line of yours..Any way pal,tired now.Sleep well.
Regards.Rye
@ Tassies:
@ ryecatcher:
@ nortie:
Hi all typed away at a comment earlier via mobile when was out walking my dog but somehow it got lost before it got posted, it was chilly and I got cold fingers nogal š
Hi Norts.Typing on the outer reaches of a yawn.
But since when does not respecting a refs decisions
merit a harsher sanction than an arse creepers
toadying up to same.?Surely this is not the criteria.
If so,”Shame on the IRB”
A final goodnight pal.
Regards.Rye
10 @ Tassies:
Am a bit further removed so maybe not as emotional about things as there seems to be a bit of a negative vibe from many of the fans towards Frans Steyn, BUT looking at the incident on face value and bearing in mind they are trying to stamp out these sorts of tackles then it is probably right that he got a ban, only problem was the way they went about it plus the fact that there was another team mate there helping with the tackle muddy the waters a bit. Although I guess we should applaud them if they are sending out the message that tip tackles whether due to a single tackler or someone being gang tackled are out of order. I keep going back to a similar one involving Toby Flood in a game up north and he got away with it as I think they argued successfully that the involvement of another team mate of his in the tackle made it harder for the situation to be avoided. BUT I have looked at that clip and going on the initial angle and tackle technique that Flood went in with and the momentum I found it hard to believe that even if his team mate wasn’t tugging the victim above the shoulder for a bit that the poor guy would still have landed awkwardly, he landed on his shoulder/neck and think maybe part of his head touched ground as well as his neck buckled a bit on impact with ground. For me Toby Flood and the other team mate should both have been banned for that. That incident looked far worse to me than the Frans Steyn/Cobus Reinach one. So this takes me back to the need for a level of consistency on a global scale which seems to be missing.
36 @ ryecatcher:
C’mon Rye…one can “point” something out to the ref in a civil manner as well. Have a look at his reaction, he was shouting at the guy.
Earlier I made mention of Messam as well…..also not condoning his action and manner of “pointing” something out to the ref…..only difference between the two is the fact that Messam is the captain and is allowed to talk to the ref, Frans isn’t the captain so it’s not his place to start telling the ref what to do.
Have a good evening, catch up later š
@ nortie:
So let,s hear it for the protected species.The ref.
Seems like the appeal which was meant to be held on Friday got postponed to Tuesday due to some intervention from the Sharks, read that they had to work hard to get that done. So in fact in a way SANZAR helped them out a bit as it meant Frans got to play on Saturday, now you may say his ban would just have been finished earlier if the hearing did go ahead on the Friday, but in the context of that game it may have helped as the Sharks were resting Lambie for that one so it was quite convenient to have Frans available for it. Didn’t watch the game v the Force so don’t know if they actually were better off having him in the team for it or not but at least they didn’t have to throw Zeilinga into starting a game after having so little Super rugby time this year I think.
38 @ ryecatcher:
Maybe it doesn’t, but why did Bissie straight away apologize to all and sundry?
He pleaded guilty straight away, said sorry, took his lumps and all is forgiven and forgotten.
If a suspect walks into the court and disrespects the cop who arrested him and the judge, then he will cop a harsher sentence, especially if he is a repeat offender.
Frans doesn’t have to gatkruip, but he doesn’t have to keep acting like the victim if he is found with the smoking gun in his hand either.
Sometimes you are guilty and you don’t like the fact you were caught more than the fact that you transgressed.
40 @ nortie:
Interesting you talking about players pointing to the ref, was following the Glasgow Warriors/Leinster game on Friday at times and right from the off the ref Nigel Owens seemed to be on some of the players case warning them not to be ‘looking for penalties’ you could hear him quite clearly through the ref mike coming through on the commentary sounded like he wanted players to know that he didn’t want players to do that and heard him saying it a few times.
37 @ Bullscot:
Evening Bully….all well on your side of the world?
What do you folk think about Gary Gold’s reaction to apparently being ‘muzzled’ by SANZAR on things, he got his opinion out in a backhanded way anyway, I think good on you Mr Gold:
Gold was asked his opinion on the debacle at a press conference on Thursday, and his lack of words spoke volumes about his feelings on the issue:
“Unfortunately, because of the… just trying to choice my words carefully here,” Gold said apprehensively.
“Because of the nature of how SANZAR have ‘muted us’ – for use of a better word – it means that in a democratic society, I am probably not allowed to say anything, at the risk of putting my foot in it.
“So if we were unbelievably disappointed, confused, and annoyed at how the proceeding have ruined our week’s preparation, and how the entire judicial system has operated – I am still unfortunately not allowed to make a comment about it.”
30 @ Tassies:
Cheers Tassies you lucky one, bon voyage.
45 @ nortie:
Hi nortie yes thanks how about with you? Just a bit disappointed about the news in today of Al Kellock’s retirement at end of the season was hoping he would hang about for at least one more, he has done so much for the club.
41 @ ryecatcher:
Every week there are countless games of rugby…..and in every game there is a ref…..and in every game the ref makes mistakes.
Yet, how often, in all those games do we see players blatantly disrespecting the refs?
We have mentioned this many times, we are not soccer where it’s par for course.
I know that unfortunately the player in question sits near to your heart, but that can’t make him alone right and all the other players who also get the short end of the stick without this type of reaction, wrong.
Be that as it may, it’s all good that you stick up for him and I understand that.
I somehow get the feeling that we must agree to disagree on this, neither of us will be swayed š
Enjoy the evening further and regards š
48 @ Bullscot:
All good my side thanks.
What was the reaction from the Scots after the Irish game, and more specifically, from the English afterwards complaining about how they and the Italians capitulated in the final round?
50 @ nortie:
Good stuff man.
There was general complete disappointment and I guess to an extent some outrage from fans about that result, but I suppose also a bit of acknowledging the superiority of Ireland at this point in time. There is a lack of leadership in the Scotland team that day with a lot of inexperienced players in among the experienced players whereas the Ireland team was packed with quality players and I think at least half a dozen established leaders. In some quarters there has been dissatisfaction for a while with Scott Johnson who was coach and now is director of rugby or something like that. Results like that one only fuelled the anger of those towards him.
One thing to remember is that Ireland won a Grand Slam back in 2009 and there were still some players from that team in the one that played and beat Scotland so well to win the 6 Nations this year, that is experience you can’t buy and throw in a superb coach and players of the calibre of Sexton and O’Brien and it is little wonder they did so well. My only cynicism about them was their style of play before that game, in the 4 games leading up to it I think they only scored two or three tries. BUT off the top of my head guys from 2009 Grand Slam that played this year against Scotland were – Rob Kearney, Luke Fitzgerald, Jamie Heaslip, Paul O’Connell, Tommy Bowe, Rory Best.
nortie wrote:
As a fan of Scotland I was disappointed in the way we capitulated against Ireland even though they are such a good team at the moment. I was also very surprised at how well Wales did/how poorly Italy did in the second half of their match. BUT I think the comments that were made by English player was in poor taste, sour grapes. England had their chances that they blew as well along the way, they could have scored more points than they did against Scotland as an example, so in the end only have themselves to blame.
By the way I am getting more and more cynical in time so I thought the Wales and Ireland results especially the margins were too good to be true as you saw how the excitement built from Wales being held close in the first half against Italy to then running away with it by I think a record second half score for them, then Ireland breaking some or other records to get an even bigger margin of victory needed for England, that sure kept interest levels up right until the end as it could very easily have petered out with England say only needing to win by 5 or 10 points against France…
@ nortie:
Hi Norts.I was responding to your statement that
(Paraphrasing here) that Frans was not the captain,and
had no right to rebuke the ref.
So here is the scene.Tribunal teleconference.
1 from OZ ,1 from NZ and 1 SA,.
OZ”So chaps,we agree that Steyn was wrong.It is time
to mete out appropriate punishment.”And he has a bad
attitude.God preserve our refs from mavericks”
NZ”Agreed guys,he tip tackled and dissed the ref,Anathema.Our refs are competent.
What can we get away with.?I suggest 5 weeks.”
SA.”Hang on guys,I have to live with the the outrage at home,as this punishment does not fit the crime.”What about Liam?.
Guilty but no sanction”? ??
The other two in unison”.Of course not,he is the captain.Steyn is a mere player.Only captains may query a refs decision”(News to me).NZ captains are royal game.We 3 are the Holy Trinity.Our decisions are
cast in concrete.
SA.shamefaced.’OK guys,5 weeks it is” but what about
precedent”.
NZ & OZ.What precedent Ha.Ha.
Question.Is 5 weeks now the accepted norm for punishment of tip tackles?.Is it going to be universally applied.?
Norts,your logic re Frans being more harshly judged
than a captain would is absurd.Or should be.
You are keeping me awake.Goodnight pal.
@ ryecatcher:
No problem, he is allowed to, he complained when Peyper awarded the penalty try as well, so I guess as one of the “4” Shark’s captains he can say what he wants when he wants.
By the same token, so could all other 29 players on the field.
How nice will that look if every player on the field has a go at the ref if he sees something he doesn’t like? Or if the ref makes a call he doesn’t agree with?
They do it in football, so why not in rugby then?
That’s his prerogative as a player, and your’s as a supporter to agree with and support what he does on the field.
Other players just shut up and get on with the game and other supporters don’t agree with it when players show clear dissent towards the refs, because we don’t want the game to become like soccer and it has always been a case of the ref makes the call, the captain queries.
When Jannie last year had a go at Peyper, a lot was said, not many agreed that he was right in doing so, so why is Steyn right when he does it?
53 @ ryecatcher:
Re Messam’s choke….the simple truth of the matter is that there is no current sanction in the IRB law book dealing with grabbing a player and choking him….tackle around the throat has a sanction, spear tackle has a sanction, those are automatic cards and clear cut offenses.
It’s not NZ, Aus or SA…..it’s international, so until the IRB, or World Rugby look at that law, it can’t be compared
ryecatcher wrote:
I’m also struggling to sleep, but not due to Frans and his travails š
Hopefully catch a few winks before the Stormers get their butts kicked in a while
Well now the precedent has been set.
5 weeks for a tip tackle regardless of whether another player was involved.
And removing a player from a ruck by his neck is absolutely fine.
Glad that’s cleared up.
Tassies wrote:
Tassies wrote:
Tassies wrote:
Tassies wrote:
88
Hiya, Tassies
Hope you are enjoying your travels & stopovers along South Africa’s beautiful coastline. Drive safely & enjoy!
You seem like a pleasant, level-headed, fair-minded person.
Since, if something is repeated often enough it sometimes gains momentum, ‘unproven veracity’ & eventual broad, uncritical acceptance as ‘fact’, I’m sure you can & will be able to justify your above statements:
1. Who has not treated Frans fairly, & in which respect(s)?
2. Who is managing Frans poorly, & in which respect(s)?
3. Into his 9th year of top tier rugby do you seriously believe that Frans still requires & deserves nurturing? Shouldn’t he at this stage of his career rather be a shining example/leader (like e.g. Jean de Villiers or Warren Whiteley) and assume a mentoring role within the Sharks and the Bokke? Shouldn’t he be the one nurturing young talent in the ranks, rather than still requiring nurturing? Are you suggesting that his conduct is indicative of emotional immaturity & that he therefore needs special treatment?
4. Who is ‘looking the genius, gift-horse in the mouth’, & in which respect(s)?
5. Which management or manager (as opposed to the professional rugby player, Frans) is responsible for Frans’ poor conditioning in 2013 when he looked more like a prop than a centre? And in which respect(s)?
6. Which management or manager (as opposed to the professional rugby player, Frans) is responsible for Frans walking out on the Bokke on the brink of a Test, thereby leaving his team mates, the team, the jersey & his country in the lurch?
7. Which management or manager (as opposed to the professional rugby player, Frans) is responsible for his infringement of rugby laws that led to his yellow & red cards & subsequent 4 game suspension this season?
8. Is the conduct of Frans really in accordance with the ethos of rugby? Is he showing due consideration/respect to the match officials, to (the physical well-being of) his opponents, to the fans (both supporters & non-supporters), to his team mates, to MANAGEMENT/coaches, to his jersey (& thus all those that went before him), to his team/sponsors that pay top dollar for his services (but have to accept his way below par form for some years now)? Is his conduct not that of a person that considers himself bigger than the game?
9. To paraphrase, you call Frans an out of control (rugby) genius who finds himself in a bad space. You may or may not be right.
Can inner compulsion be controlled, altered, ‘managed’? Have you considered historical precedent that the flip side of true genius is sometimes the inexplicable curse & fate of tragically early self destruction š ?
gunther wrote:
Come now Gunther.
In the rugby sentencing, as well as regular court sentencing, a first offender generally won’t be punished as harsh as a repeat offender.
Also, mitigating factors such as showing remorse for the offense/crime also play a part in punishment.
Those are two factors that might have contributed to the 4 weeks, but are also two factors that only Frans himself could have prevented.
We see players being choked regularly, usually it’s when one team is mauling. Refs usually would shout and warn the person grabbing the opponent around his neck to leave the opponent…..only in extreme cases, when no heed is given, will a penalty be given. I think Rhodes once copped a yellow for choking Bissie in a CC game, but that isn’t a par for course reaction at this stage for that offence.
A spear tackle, on the other hand, is usually followed by a card straight away.
Who knows, if Messam’s choke didn’t coincide with Bissie’s kick, he might have been sent off at that stage?
Initially, when the ref called for the big screen, that was the first I saw the choke and I thought that was the reason for the replay. I was convinced the Chiefs would be down to 13, but only then I saw they were focussing on the kick to the head.
Maybe it was just bad timing for his poor judgement to kick the guy?
58 @ Angostura:
Good questions.
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