335 Responses to Super Rugby: Cell C Sharks vs Emirates Lions – Live Game Article

• 

  331

  MacroBull on 24 February 2015 at 7:45 pm

  @ Angostura:

  First of all some housekeeping:
  For purposes of this discussion, the minnows are Scotland, Kenya, Netherlands, Ireland, Zimbabwe & Bangladesh since none of the current crop of Proteas have played Afghanistan or UAE.
  The non-minnows (disregarding South Africa) are Australia, India, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England, Pakistan & the West Indies.

  Fair parameters I agree.

  For context & proper comparison’s sake, let’s not just pick on JP – Let us rather assess his ODI stats relative to the other 5 in the much vaunted Proteas’ line-up of top 6 ODI batsmen, and thereafter also relative to a selection of other international middle order batsmen who perform a similar task to that of JP for their respective national ODI teams.
  JP vs. Other Proteas’ Batsmen
  (Metrics considered: ICC Ranking – Overall Average – Average vs. Non Minnows – Average vs. Minnows)
  Amla – #2 – 55.59 – 54.41 – 61.18
  Q d K – #10 – 40.54 – 39.68 – 45.00
  Faf – #20 – 34.03 – 30.48 – 57.13
  AB – #1 – 51.82 – 52.41 – 48.33
  Miller – #37 – 37.77 – 32.86 – 96.67
  JP – #33 – 40.05 – 31.84 – 96.17
  Interestingly all of the above batsmen (other than the #1 ODI batsman in the world) have a better average vs. the minnows than vs. the non-minnows. At 96.67 David Miller has the highest average vs. the minnows, yet “minnow basher” is a term reserved for JP!

  Fair call, if you go by average, Miller “could” be grouped with JPD, but how many runs did these guys score against minnows (which I think is equally important)

  There could be an argument (which is true) that JP just plays more games vs minnows, but this does not mean he still doesn’t “overachieve” compared to the other guys.

  (Metrics considered: % games played vs minnows – % runs scored vs minnows)
  Amla –18.35 – 19.27
  Q d K – 15.79 – 18
  Faf – 15.15 – 22.38
  AB – 14.79 – 13.508
  Miller – 12.07 – 19.69
  JP – 20.16 – 30.65

  Duminy, Miller and Faf appear to do significantly better against minnows (or worse against non-minnows)

  It is too early to tell for QdK and Miller as they have only played Zim, so their (minnow average) could increase and so their runs scored vs minnows%… no one knows yet.

  Id say Faf has lower average because he has not performed in ODI cricket, though he has 2 100’s against Aus, so I cant call him a minnow basher, because he can perform against the best.

  Granted, against the non minnows JP’s batting average is the lowest of these 6, but then he bats at 6, doesn’t he?

  duminy has batted 28/124 innings coming in at 6-9… what about the rest of his career? same excuse applies?

  Duminy has played 63/124 innings at number 5, where he has a similar career average of 39.68, same position as Clarke who averages, 62.58 at 5 though I know that may be skewed because Clarke is a much better batsman.

  If anyone is underperforming these stats vs. the minnows indicate that it is Amla, but especially AB. Both of them should be performing considerably better than they do against weak opposition.
  JP & Miller’s stats unsurprisingly indicate that one can really cash in against weak opposition (but that not all batsmen do). One should rather congratulate them (JP & Miller) than impugn their track records & reputations.

  Whether score score heavily against minnows over non minnows or they just under perform against minnows their reputations are to be minnow bashers, especially Duminy because he has actually played 5/6 of those minnows.

  Congratulations to them, but i want them to score heavily against top teams as well so South Africa can actually win a world cup for a change.

  It is also noticeable that JP’s, a #6, batting averages (overall, vs. non minnows, & vs. minnows) are in all respects superior to that of Faf, a #3 batsman, the position normally reserved for a team’s leading batsman. Yet MacroBull has nothing to say about Faf, preferring to refer to JP’s average vs. non minnows as “below average”.

  No I have said that Faf underperforms, read post 328 where Macrobull made reference to that

  “just because JPD does not score runs in big games against big teams, does not make him one of the best T20 batsman in the world (along with FAF)…I guess it is all just about a mindset.”

  JP vs. other International Middle Order Batsmen

  Your completely missing the point, this is not a “Duminy bashing” I merely made reference that he is a minnows basher because he scores significantly more against minnows then against non minnows where he has yet to score a 100 in 124 innings.

  Jonty Rhodes, are:
  Ave – 35.12
  S/R – 80.90

  how do I even respond to this, comparing players 15 years apart?

  Andrew hudson was also an icon,
  ave – 33.45
  S/R – 64.62

  as well as adrian kuiper
  ave – 32.24
  S/R – N/A

  MacroBull regards JP as an underachiever…

  Indeed, he has the ability, Macrobull expects more from him in big games.

  My ha’penny’s worth is that JP is a very valuable member of the Proteas XI; right now irreplaceable …

  Do you even read Macrobulls posts?

  Post 303

  “like i said, he can be good for 20 runs against good teams, and he can get in quite a few overs with his spin (also crucial to our over rate)and he is a good fielder, I agree… i am in no way advocating that we replace him when cant even find an adequate replacement for the no7 role batsman/bowler.”

  I agree.
• 

  332

  MacroBull on 24 February 2015 at 7:48 pm

  haha what a fark up, lets try this again

  @ Angostura:

  First of all some housekeeping:
  For purposes of this discussion, the minnows are Scotland, Kenya, Netherlands, Ireland, Zimbabwe & Bangladesh since none of the current crop of Proteas have played Afghanistan or UAE.
  The non-minnows (disregarding South Africa) are Australia, India, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England, Pakistan & the West Indies.

  Fair parameters I agree.

  For context & proper comparison’s sake, let’s not just pick on JP – Let us rather assess his ODI stats relative to the other 5 in the much vaunted Proteas’ line-up of top 6 ODI batsmen, and thereafter also relative to a selection of other international middle order batsmen who perform a similar task to that of JP for their respective national ODI teams.
  JP vs. Other Proteas’ Batsmen
  (Metrics considered: ICC Ranking – Overall Average – Average vs. Non Minnows – Average vs. Minnows)
  Amla – #2 – 55.59 – 54.41 – 61.18
  Q d K – #10 – 40.54 – 39.68 – 45.00
  Faf – #20 – 34.03 – 30.48 – 57.13
  AB – #1 – 51.82 – 52.41 – 48.33
  Miller – #37 – 37.77 – 32.86 – 96.67
  JP – #33 – 40.05 – 31.84 – 96.17
  Interestingly all of the above batsmen (other than the #1 ODI batsman in the world) have a better average vs. the minnows than vs. the non-minnows. At 96.67 David Miller has the highest average vs. the minnows, yet “minnow basher” is a term reserved for JP!

  Fair call, if you go by average, Miller “could” be grouped with JPD, but how many runs did these guys score against minnows (which I think is equally important)

  There could be an argument (which is true) that JP just plays more games vs minnows, but this does not mean he still doesn’t “overachieve” compared to the other guys.

  (Metrics considered: % games played vs minnows – % runs scored vs minnows)
  Amla –18.35 – 19.27
  Q d K – 15.79 – 18
  Faf – 15.15 – 22.38
  AB – 14.79 – 13.508
  Miller – 12.07 – 19.69
  JP – 20.16 – 30.65

  Duminy, Miller and Faf appear to do significantly better against minnows (or worse against non-minnows)

  It is too early to tell for QdK and Miller as they have only played Zim, so their (minnow average) could increase and so their runs scored vs minnows%… no one knows yet.

  Id say Faf has lower average because he has not performed in ODI cricket, though he has 2 100’s against Aus, so I cant call him a minnow basher, because he can perform against the best.

  Granted, against the non minnows JP’s batting average is the lowest of these 6, but then he bats at 6, doesn’t he?

  duminy has batted 28/124 innings coming in at 6-9… what about the rest of his career? same excuse applies?

  Duminy has played 63/124 innings at number 5, where he has a similar career average of 39.68, same position as Clarke who averages, 62.58 at 5 though I know that may be skewed because Clarke is a much better batsman.

  If anyone is underperforming these stats vs. the minnows indicate that it is Amla, but especially AB. Both of them should be performing considerably better than they do against weak opposition.
  JP & Miller’s stats unsurprisingly indicate that one can really cash in against weak opposition (but that not all batsmen do). One should rather congratulate them (JP & Miller) than impugn their track records & reputations.

  Whether they score score heavily against minnows over non minnows or they just under perform against minnows their reputations are to be minnow bashers, especially Duminy because he has actually played 5/6 of those minnows.

  Congratulations to them, but i want them to score heavily against top teams as well so South Africa can actually win a world cup for a change.

  It is also noticeable that JP’s, a #6, batting averages (overall, vs. non minnows, & vs. minnows) are in all respects superior to that of Faf, a #3 batsman, the position normally reserved for a team’s leading batsman. Yet MacroBull has nothing to say about Faf, preferring to refer to JP’s average vs. non minnows as “below average”.

  No I have said that Faf underperforms, read post 328 where Macrobull made reference to that

  “just because JPD does not score runs in big games against big teams, does not make him one of the best T20 batsman in the world (along with FAF)…I guess it is all just about a mindset.”

  JP vs. other International Middle Order Batsmen

  Your completely missing the point, this is not a “Duminy bashing” I merely made reference that he is a minnows basher because he scores significantly more against minnows then against non minnows where he has yet to score a 100 in 124 innings.

  Jonty Rhodes, are:
  Ave – 35.12
  S/R – 80.90

  how do I even respond to this, comparing players 15 years apart?

  Andrew hudson was also an icon,
  ave – 33.45
  S/R – 64.62

  as well as adrian kuiper
  ave – 32.24
  S/R – N/A

  MacroBull regards JP as an underachiever…

  Indeed, he has the ability, Macrobull expects more from him in big games.

  My ha’penny’s worth is that JP is a very valuable member of the Proteas XI; right now irreplaceable …

  Do you even read Macrobulls posts?

  Post 303

  “like i said, he can be good for 20 runs against good teams, and he can get in quite a few overs with his spin (also crucial to our over rate)and he is a good fielder, I agree… i am in no way advocating that we replace him when cant even find an adequate replacement for the no7 role batsman/bowler.”

  I agree.
• 

  333

  MacroBull on 24 February 2015 at 7:50 pm

  damnit

  @ Angostura:

  First of all some housekeeping:
  For purposes of this discussion, the minnows are Scotland, Kenya, Netherlands, Ireland, Zimbabwe & Bangladesh since none of the current crop of Proteas have played Afghanistan or UAE.
  The non-minnows (disregarding South Africa) are Australia, India, Sri Lanka, New Zealand, England, Pakistan & the West Indies.

  Fair parameters I agree.
• 

  334

  MacroBull on 24 February 2015 at 7:51 pm

  For context & proper comparison’s sake, let’s not just pick on JP – Let us rather assess his ODI stats relative to the other 5 in the much vaunted Proteas’ line-up of top 6 ODI batsmen, and thereafter also relative to a selection of other international middle order batsmen who perform a similar task to that of JP for their respective national ODI teams.
  JP vs. Other Proteas’ Batsmen
  (Metrics considered: ICC Ranking – Overall Average – Average vs. Non Minnows – Average vs. Minnows)
  Amla – #2 – 55.59 – 54.41 – 61.18
  Q d K – #10 – 40.54 – 39.68 – 45.00
  Faf – #20 – 34.03 – 30.48 – 57.13
  AB – #1 – 51.82 – 52.41 – 48.33
  Miller – #37 – 37.77 – 32.86 – 96.67
  JP – #33 – 40.05 – 31.84 – 96.17
  Interestingly all of the above batsmen (other than the #1 ODI batsman in the world) have a better average vs. the minnows than vs. the non-minnows. At 96.67 David Miller has the highest average vs. the minnows, yet “minnow basher” is a term reserved for JP!

  Fair call, if you go by average, Miller “could” be grouped with JPD, but how many runs did these guys score against minnows (which I think is equally important)

  There could be an argument (which is true) that JP just plays more games vs minnows, but this does not mean he still doesn’t “overachieve” compared to the other guys.

  (Metrics considered: % games played vs minnows – % runs scored vs minnows)
  Amla –18.35 – 19.27
  Q d K – 15.79 – 18
  Faf – 15.15 – 22.38
  AB – 14.79 – 13.508
  Miller – 12.07 – 19.69
  JP – 20.16 – 30.65

  Duminy, Miller and Faf appear to do significantly better against minnows (or worse against non-minnows)

  It is too early to tell for QdK and Miller as they have only played Zim, so their (minnow average) could increase and so their runs scored vs minnows%… no one knows yet.

  Id say Faf has lower average because he has not performed in ODI cricket, though he has 2 100’s against Aus, so I cant call him a minnow basher, because he can perform against the best.

  Granted, against the non minnows JP’s batting average is the lowest of these 6, but then he bats at 6, doesn’t he?

  duminy has batted 28/124 innings coming in at 6-9… what about the rest of his career? same excuse applies?

  Duminy has played 63/124 innings at number 5, where he has a similar career average of 39.68, same position as Clarke who averages, 62.58 at 5 though I know that may be skewed because Clarke is a much better batsman.

  If anyone is underperforming these stats vs. the minnows indicate that it is Amla, but especially AB. Both of them should be performing considerably better than they do against weak opposition.
  JP & Miller’s stats unsurprisingly indicate that one can really cash in against weak opposition (but that not all batsmen do). One should rather congratulate them (JP & Miller) than impugn their track records & reputations.

  Whether score score heavily against minnows over non minnows or they just under perform against minnows their reputations are to be minnow bashers, especially Duminy because he has actually played 5/6 of those minnows.

  Congratulations to them, but i want them to score heavily against top teams as well so South Africa can actually win a world cup for a change.

  It is also noticeable that JP’s, a #6, batting averages (overall, vs. non minnows, & vs. minnows) are in all respects superior to that of Faf, a #3 batsman, the position normally reserved for a team’s leading batsman. Yet MacroBull has nothing to say about Faf, preferring to refer to JP’s average vs. non minnows as “below average”.

  No I have said that Faf underperforms, read post 328 where Macrobull made reference to that

  just because JPD does not score runs in big games against big teams, does not make him one of the best T20 batsman in the world (along with FAF)…I guess it is all just about a mindset.

  JP vs. other International Middle Order Batsmen

  Your completely missing the point, this is not a “Duminy bashing” I merely made reference that he is a minnows basher because he scores significantly more against minnows then against non minnows where he has yet to score a 100 in 124 innings.

  Jonty Rhodes, are:
  Ave – 35.12
  S/R – 80.90

  how do I even respond to this, comparing players 15 years apart?

  Andrew hudson was also an icon,
  ave – 33.45
  S/R – 64.62

  as well as adrian kuiper
  ave – 32.24
  S/R – N/A

  MacroBull regards JP as an underachiever…

  Indeed, he has the ability, Macrobull expects more from him in big games.

  My ha’penny’s worth is that JP is a very valuable member of the Proteas XI; right now irreplaceable …

  Do you even read Macrobulls posts?

  Post 303

  like i said, he can be good for 20 runs against good teams, and he can get in quite a few overs with his spin (also crucial to our over rate)and he is a good fielder, I agree… i am in no way advocating that we replace him when cant even find an adequate replacement for the no7 role batsman/bowler.

  I agree.
• 

  335

  MacroBull on 24 February 2015 at 7:52 pm

  Help webmonster. delete delete delete 331, 332 asb 😳