Having just read an article which elicited quite a strangely strong emotional shout out loud response from myself I thought it would be worth sharing it here to bring it to the attention of anyone else who may not have heard about what I feel to be a very crude deal that has been made.
As it is so hot of the press (for me) I am not sure whether this horse trading breaks any specific laws as laid out by the International Rugby Board but I feel it certainly goes against the Spirit of our great game.
The detail of the deal between USA Rugby and Premiership Rugby Ltd (PRL) needs to be viewed in the context of the recent past regarding PRL’s stance on players playing for their country outside of the International Window. In particular, I am referring to the instance where they reportedly fined Northampton Saints (one of the clubs playing and contributing to the success of their very own league) £60 000 for allowing George North to play for Wales in a match that fell outside of the International Window.
Have I just ventured into the unfamiliar ‘Emo’ territory to quote one of the buzz words that has been used on our site or does this really stink to others too? Let us know what you think.
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Rugby Today has confirmed that USA Rugby struck a deal with the Aviva Premiership which will see the availability of several Eagles for three November rankings tests traded for their availability in the 1 November match with the All Blacks. The New Zealand game falls outside the designated November test window, during which clubs have to make their players available for international call-ups, per the International Rugby Board’s Regulation 9.
Several top-line Eagles play professionally in the Premiership, including Cam Dolan (Northampton), Eric Fry (Newcastle), Hayden Smith (Saracens), Chris Wyles (Saracens), Samu Manoa (Northampton) and Blaine Scully (Northampton). In order to make them available for the All Blacks contest, which is expected to sell out and be a commercial win, but most likely an on-field loss, USA Rugby CEO Nigel Melville negotiated an agreement that will see them unavailable for the 8 November match with Romania, 15 November meeting with Tonga and 22 November Fiji game.
The deal was made without the consultation or consent of Eagles head coach Mike Tolkin, his coaching staff or the players in question. It was also made without the OK from the IRB, which is said to be upset with the deal, as it goes against the spirit of Regulation 9 – in place to protect players’ ability to play for their countries in designated competitions and times of the year, as well as the profitablity of international rugby.
Rugby Today contacted Nigel Melville for this story, but he declined to comment. It’s possible the IRB could intervene and force the availability of the USA’s Premiership players for the November tests, but some close to the situation aren’t optimistic it will.
With the All Black game expected to draw a crowd that could triple the current record for a domestic test match, a coveted time slot on network television, and a great opportunity for media exposure, it’s easy to speculate why USA Rugby was desperate to put its best foot forward for the game.
However, the loss of a quarter of the Eagles’ potential starting lineup for three full rankings tests is a stiff price to pay. With only a finite amount of games and less than 12 months to prepare for the World Cup, the Eagles need as much assembly time as they can get with their full team.
What do Romania, Tonga and Fiji have in common? They are all outside the top 10 but all above USA on the latest IRB rankings list, if USA Rugby continue in this way then may this status quo be maintained.
Bully, I guess any of those USA players would simply trade any other “ordinary” matches for the opportunity to play once in their life against the All Blacks.
I’m sure most international players would contemplate doing or do the same.
They may never again have the opportunity to face the Haka and the best side in the world, and surely as a pro, that is the measure of your worth, facing the best.
That’s the way I view this and if I were an Eagle player I would also rather cop a 50 point loss for the chance to say I played the All Blacks and here is the jersey I swopped to prove it, instead of facing any of the other test playing nations, even if it means losing out on 3 tests.
@ nortie:
Hello nortie, that’s an interesting take on things, one which had not thought of especially as if the article is true it sounds as if the coach and players were not consulted on this. Do you not think it is a sad endictment on a game that is trying to grow globally and needs to assist the smaller nations in doing so by giving them more test match rugby that one of the smaller nations (rugby wise) themselves turns their back on their fellow small nations to get a shot at making money and to play against a team that is perhaps unfairly placed on a very high pedestal.
@ nortie:
I guess what got my goat up was this for me shows that we are going further down the slippery club v country slope in rugby at a rate that don’t feel comfortable with. For me the pinnacle for the player must be international rugby but the problem that so many of these players from the smaller rugby nations face is that is there club appearances that really put the bread on their tables.
@ Bullscot:
It may go against many ethos and even IRB regulations, but the biggest losers will be the players who don’t ply their trade in professional clubs and have stayed in the USA who might miss out on the biggest game of their lives.
We can equate this to the CC teams playing all season and do well enough that they reach the semis, only to be left out for the returning Springboks who have finished the RC ( this year it’s different, but you know what I mean, eg last year with WP and the Sharks )
It’s the way of the professional game, the big name players and stars must be included to either put bums on seats or to strength then the team. Cricket is similar, as I’m sure many other sports as well.
In this instance I really feel for the USA players who would be willing to do anything to play in this match, it will, by far, be the biggest game of their lives
4 @ Bullscot:
That’s very true, especially for those playing in Europe, the money seems endless.
Then you have guys like Boudjella (sp) making even more demands and even threatening law suits when his team is producing, and basically blaming it on the absence of two or 3 players
It is all politics to get favour of the American market before SANZAR does… Brilliant
My take on it is that the IRB are nothing but a bunch of hypocites.
It was the IRB who pushed for SEVENS Rugby to get included in the Olympics with the view of accessing GOVERNMEN funding for 3 potentially massive Ruby markets. viz China, Russia and the USA.
In so doing they cut off the chance of the home unions (England, Scotland and Wales) to compete in the competition that will in future replace the Sevens World Cup.
Now that the money has started flowing in places like the USA the IRB want to jump up and down when the Eagles want to use their top players (by hook or by crook) in a big money spinning game.
The IRB have created the toxic, money means everything culture, and now want to stop it when it doesn’t come from their collective minds.
Some irony there methinks.
As for the Aviva clubs, whether they lose their players for a game IN the test window where the Eagles play Romania, or OUT of the test window for a game v NZ, what the hell do they care?
Probably less than zip, especially if the USA are prepared to grease some palms with some yankee silver to allow it to happen.
Neewat. The “old farts” in Dublin must wake up and smell the roses. (Or maybe the stench they are causing themselves.)
I doubt the USA central contracts are worth much at all.
Therefore the clubs pay the majority of their salary.
The test window is just that and if a game falls outside it them so be it.
Kudos to the clubs for being flexible for what is a huge occasion for these guys.
gunther wrote:
I agree, but I’m sure that the IRB view it as the tail wagging the dog.
Aint life a bitch? (Pun intended.)
@ Scrumdown:
😆
Maybe but I see this as an example of sense prevailing.
7 @ MacroBlouBul:
Hi Macro I suppose for a one off big game against the All Blacks there will be a fair amount of revenue from the crowd attending and from broadcasting deals, but surely the All Blacks will need to be well looked after so in the short term this does benefit one of SANZAR members and one wonders how much will be left over for USA Rugby. In the longer term you raise a point about Premiership Rugby getting in there with the Americans, guess only time will tell but how big (from a rugby point of view) is the market really in the States. They have been playing for a long time but how well known are their domestic championships, do we ever talk about local American rugby, if so then far less than we do hear about Japanese local rugby which attracts far bigger names?
8 @ Scrumdown:
Hi Scrumdown some interesting views, think very well balanced with IRB chips on both shoulders, only kidding mate.
Do you think that the World Series Sevens will still keep on and is it maybe a bigger event that Sevens World Cup anyway, haven’t heard of World Cup stopping do you have a source with info?
Regarding the effect of it possibly falling away on the home Unions, its interesting to note that in some quarters here there are people questioning the viability of Scotland having an international 7s team.
I think the deal was done by the umbrella Premiership body and not necessarily the clubs themselves but I don’t know the ins and outs of how that body functions and what voice each club has in it. But regardless I disagree and think they DO care about having their assets (players) available to play in their competition and this is why they have got themselves a lekker deal – they lose them for one game even if it is out of the window as they then get to keep them for the 3 games that are in the window so they score by having players available for two more games this way….
Am a bit surprised that someone like you who champions the cause of the smaller rugby clubs over there so well hasn’t expressed a similar concern that I have of what signal this sends out to the USA’s fellow smaller rugby nations that they care more about playing one game against the golden boys than playing 3 games against their counterparts. Surely it is to the detriment of the game growing if a few rich club leagues get to decide in this way (along in this instance with the support of a single country) what happens in international rugby matches? To me yet another uncomfortable precedent has been set.
9 @ gunther:
Hi Gunther yes I also raised the point in comment that for the players from the smaller countries that their biggest pay package must come from the clubs. But does that mean that these clubs can just maak en breek soos hulle wil, were will this leave international rugby in a decade from now.
As you say the clubs (Premiership Rugby) have been flexible in this instance, but why… because they managed to broker a deal that suits them by letting the players out for one game they didn’t have to the are getting to keep the players for more games at a time when they should be releasing them for international duty. Why were they not so flexible in the George North case when he played for Wales out the window with the blessing of his club Northampton (I presume who have some membership of the PRL club). Quite simply because they didn’t want one of their prized assets missing from a single game and the regulations allowed them to put their foot down.
Don’t know the letter of the regulation but I guess it says they can’t refuse a player being called up by their country during the window – but in this case they have circumvented this in that the players will not be called up by their country during the window so they are not breaking any laws.
USA tour fixtures – v Romania on 8 November in Bucharest, v Tonga on 15 November in Gloucester, v Fiji on 22 November in Vannes France.
I don’t know what the gate takings would have been like anyway for these games and how the revenue is split but do wonder that with so many of USA top players missing will these takings be lower now with a bit less interest in the games. Also don’t know if the USA or any of the other nations have managed to secure any broadcasting of the games, if they had am sure the broadcasters will not be happy that the games have effectively been down graded. I guess the broadcast deal for the game against New Zealand would have dwarfed the sum of the deal for all 3 of the other tests anyway. As they say “It’s all bout the money”
@ Bullscot:
nz is also playing there to break into their market.
rugby is growing there. they are starting to introduce it to school kids now. something that was rarely there before.
They have been a team a long time but never had a openminded leadership like they have now. they will start overtaking some of the six nations teams by 2015 I reckon.
@ Bullscot:
Ja, its all about the money, no doubt about it.
Are you following the lingering feud between Hodgson and Brendon Rodgers in the British media with Rodgers apparently in the driving seat (Sterling and Sturridge).
At the end of the day i guess the player also has a lot of say like when Sterling told Hodgson he is tired and will not be able to play at his best (inside the window). His response to the public outcry of him being “soft” was the classic” Excuse me for being human” line…
I see some of the public are now comparing him to English soldiers who died during war for their country despite being battle weary and as tired as hell… what a lot of hogwash…
16 @ MacroBlouBul:
thanks for the info, don’t know too much about the game in the USA, good on them for taking rugby into the schools more, with the size of the population the potential certainly is there but it has been there for ages so let’s see if it’s realized more now.
The open minded leadership you refer to is that the boss man the former England scrumhalf Nigel Melville? In this case having him there must have helped them deal with the English Premiership guys he must have connections (mates) within there going back some time …
In what sense do you think they will start overtaking some of the 6 Nations by next year?
17 @ robzim:
Hi Robzim yeah have heard a bit about the Sterling ‘saga’ but not followed it too closely, football is so big over here and so it is good for media business to not only report but stir up debate about as many things football related that they can which often leaves me feeling things are over hyped.
The view I got listening for a short while on the drive this morning on the radio (with Alan Brazil and Mike Parry – two guys I really find entertaining on the radio) is that perhaps Hodgson could have been a bit more savyy in the way he brought the message across about Sterling. But this thing just underlines in a way the points am trying to make in regarding the pitfalls of getting to a position where club dominates country in a sport. Haven’t too much about what Rodgers has been saying, guess he is not happy and probably being quite defensive towards his players. Hodgson seems to have been quite direct in expressing his thoughts lately this follows last week (I think) some comments he apparently made regarding another of Liverpool’s favourite sons Rooney’s accent.
Don’t know the context of how Sterling went about expressing his tiredness to Hodgson was it in an honest look boss I want to but man am feeling really worn out at the moment or did he throw his toys out of the cot at training etc. He is still quite young to have experienced all that game time with a top club (spit spit I said it 😀 ) then to World Cup and then back to club football with little time off in between so it is not surprising that he may be tired, don’t know though how well Rodgers manages his game time. My concern has long been by seeing it in rugby that there is a tendency to overplay some players which when they are younger can be detrimental to them. Is Sterling physically or mentally tired or both?
Agree with you the comparisons between very well paid 19 year old professional footballer and soldiers is just plain daft, its not even comparing apples with pears but more like comparing apples with aubergines.
@ Bullscot:
I understand why you say football is overhyped over there.. as someone who follows English premiership football fairly closely I always enjoyed the (over) hype in the press when I visit England (about once a year) but if I had to live there permanently I would have most likely also found it a bit too much.
Rodgers is under a lot of pressure as the club is not performing well in the post Suarez era with Balotelli not coming off so far and Surridge been injured for most of the time ( he blames Hodgson for that) . He is in a catch 22 situation with Sterling as he has to protect him but also need him on the field. Sterling can become the next superstar of English football but he could also become the next Michael Owen ( burnt out at 26) depending on how he is managed between country and club and also on how lucky he is. I think he was physically tired as he played the equivalent (in minutes) of 9 matches during September and especially for a player whose game is based on high intensity sprinting I think it is just too much whether he is 19 or 29.
Hodgon’s comment about Rooney’s Scouse accent was plain daft imo.. .. an insult to his captain… I believe he did apologise though but the damage was done..
@ Bullscot:
Hey Scotty,
read this article
http://www.theroar.com.au/2014/06/25/predicting-irb-world-rankings-2024/
21… It is an opinion piece I know, but still interesting
@ MacroBlouBul:
France at 5 and Argentina at 6 pretty much blows his opinion out of the water IMO.
They are both one hit wonders and while France will cause the odd upset at WC time, both they and the Argies lack the mental strength to sustain an unbeaten run necessary to gain a top position in the rankings.
Why would the next ten years make any difference when the majority of teams have been playing for a 100 or more?
@ nortie:
To you maybe
I think it is about Argentina getting more exposure, so they might become more consistant, france is not going well now, but they will be back (at 4 or 5).
I think it is about the upward trend of some teams mainly, such as USA and Japan that I am more focused on.
When it comes to the IRB World Rankings there is only ONE team that is relatively consistent (New Zealand) & one other that is relatively somewhat consistent (Australia); with the rankings range quite wide & a few fat tail outliers present, it is abundantly clear that probability suggests that rankings will change quite dramatically over the ensuing 10 years, just as it changed quite dramatically over & during the past 10 years.
Harping on just France & Argentina (again!) is actually contrary to reality, & is becoming quite hackneyed & boring … y-a-w-n.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IRB_World_Rankings
@ Angostura:
Then scroll past
@ MacroBlouBul:
#21 thanks Macro a nice read, the guy puts his predictions with his reasons quite well. Nice to see all the optimism from him it is a nice dream to have rugby growing but becoming more competitive at same time. Interesting he had Canada and USA both improving to similar relative level and keeps Japan in top 10 but drops Wales, Scotland etc, now I know Japan beat Wales last year but that is an isolated success over them against a team well below strength for Japan to be 10 requires sustained success, lets see how they fare against top 10 teams when they are at full strength. The results in World Cup between the bigger and smaller teams should give a good indication of how much improving is required. I like his idea of one day a far bigger Rugby World Cup.
@ robzim:
#20 The pressure your man is under can be due to doing things like buying Origi and putting him straight out on loan, was baffled by that at the time already
@ Bullscot:
yep I agree Japan were playing weaker teams. Eddie Jones is doing great work in japan though and they are improving. they need gametime against the hest teams though because in asia they hav no competition.
@ Bullscot:
Hi BS. I just saw your answer to my comment(s)
I coudn’t look at RT yesterday pm as I was on site at the feedlot of the biggest individual cattle owner in the southern hemisphere. What a sight to behold!
I’ll have a search on the net and look for a reference for the Olympics replacing the 7’s WC.
IMHO I think the IRB should REALLY consider splitting ALL of the world competitions into two “leagues”.
Let’s be honest, in any given competition, there are probably at most 5 teams that have a realistic chance of winning, possibly up to 8 teams in the mens 7’s.
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