Hawkeye technology used in tennis
Technology company Hawkeye says it is in talks about providing a replacement to the television match official (TMO) system in rugby.
Hawkeye, which operates systems in football and tennis, could be used in domestic rugby and internationally in time for the 2015 Rugby World Cup.
Hawkeye founder Paul Hawkins said: “We are in conversation with Premiership Rugby and the IRB.”
The International Rugby Board would not confirm any talks with Hawkeye.
bbc
The IRB is conducting a global trial of the TMO system until August and a spokesperson said: “The TMO is under a process of continual evaluation to promote clear, consistent and accurate decision-making while keeping game-time impact minimal.”
Hawkeye says it can provide information for decisions within a few seconds by synchronising cameras from multiple angles.
Computer tracking would be used to provide information about whether the ball had crossed the line, although it would still be possible to use video replays to judge whether the ball had been grounded.
Hawkins said: “Our system is a much cleverer way of looking at incidents. In Aussie rules, we have halved the average time for decisions to be made.
“Premiership Rugby and the IRB are aware of our products. We hope of course they will be there for next season and it would be great if we were there for the World Cup.”
The discussions come at a key time for rugby after Saracens chief executive Edward Griffiths called TMO “a shambles” following the Aviva Premiership final, when it took four minutes to award Northampton’s winning try. There were also two disallowed tries in the match, including one by Saracens’ Owen Farrell which was initially awarded by the referee.
The Hawkeye system is likely to be more expensive than the current TMO system, which uses the existing TV feeds.
A Premiership Rugby spokesman said: “We are constantly looking at ways to improve the TMO process to help our match officials and although we have spoken to Hawkeye we have no plans to use it at the moment.”
TMO took four minutes to award Northampton their winning try in the Aviva Premiership Final
It would help a lot to alleviate all the nonsense we get.
This can be great. I wonder if hawkeye will be able to track where the ball crossed the touch line when a ball was kicked out. That will really be helpful.
@ leon: Agreed, that would be really great; I often wonder how these touch judges decide where it crossed the line.
Hawkeye could surely assist, but something which needs more drastic attention right at this moment is the TMO’s communication with the referee… and for fark steaks I get so pissed off when a TMO is not clear and concise in his determinations and directives to the Referee.
Some of the TMO’s, like Veldsman communicates so bloody badly!
@ BrumbiesBoy@3:
Yea, me too. I’m all for using technology. If a computer can calculate the forward pass, if a player was in front of the kicker, side entry into a rug, where the ball went over the touch line, skew through into a lineout /scrum it will remove a lot of my frustration.
Could really help thin out those pesky forward passes, then again even if hawkeye says its 3 meters forward, they ref will still look at hand movement.
Camera angles have been the death of forward passes for years, it is impossible to see with your eye when the camera angle is from a “8 o’clock” position.
@ grootblousmile@4:
Yes, It seems like he’s to scared to make a call.
@ MacroBok:
I’ve been wondering about this hand movement. It’s very difficult to determine if the hands went forward. Wouldn’t it be easier to check if the receiver was in front of the passer when the ball leaves the hands?
@ leon:
hmmm I think it would be easier… but picture this… two guys running will speed and the receiver is 10-15m away from the passer, 1m ahead of him. depending on the strength of the pass the receiver will probably catch the ball atleast 3meters further ahead.
If at that stage a referee still contemplates hand movements or if it was forward, then either the referee is; a)seriously unfit, b)incompetent or c)bought.
Then again hawkeye could include vectors, momentum and distance in the calculations of forward passes, hand movements won’t matter… if it went “forward” it went forward+with momentum.
I can’t see hawkeye being used for something else other than forward passes or rugby will get as drawn out as american football if lineouts and scrum feeds are analyzed to death every game.
Jeremy Renner will be watching all the rugby games?
hmmm even then it would be inpossible to use hawkeye in wet weather for forward passes as you would need to know the weight of the ball or the friction from rain that falls on it.
10 @ MacroBok:
Funny you mention those Macro, was just about to post that surely technology can be used, if not with camera angles then some fancy chip planted into the ball and perhaps somewhere on players outfits, to pick up those skew lineout throws and the scrumhalf feeding the ball under his hooker’s feet – these things are basics of the game that are often not picked up by ref or linesman, why I don’t know is beyond me.
Hawkeye has proven its worth in sport like tennis regarding a ball being just in or out, but my concern was that is with a fairly clear set of targets – ball and line with not much in between, so initially I thought this surely can’t work in rugby where there can be lots of sweaty people getting in the way of seeing if a ball has been grounded for a try or not, BUT as they say it works in Aussie rules so there must be something that the clever people at Hawkeye have in mind that can help our game.
Another thing which annoys me is to a ref point to a spot where a penalty is to be taken, then turns his back and a kicker (taking a penalty to touch) will move forward past that spot before putting boot to ball and in so doing gain crucial extra ground for his team, but this is something again which should be picked up between the on field officials but as it happens quite obviously they don’t always do so maybe technology is the way forward more and more…
@ Bullscot:
Yes, those lineout throws are one thing, but referees are more lenient on lineout throws when other teams are not competing… the whole idea is to let the game flow more and not blow those little things every time when they mean very little (if you won’t compete its your problem), if rugby is continuously “stop-start”.
Scrums are another thing, I am against the referee blowing a skew throw in for this team, but the other guys get off scot free like the Stormers vs Cheetahs game, but if we are going to rely on a computer to make those decisions everytime rugby will become boring.
I am not opposed to throwing the ball to your side of the scrum though, but that’s a topic for discussion at another time.
@14Aussie rules is a flowing game by nature compared to rugby,
but then again it would be fun if they attacked a shocking machine to referees, when the ball was determined to be out by hawkeye and he takes longer than 3 seconds to decide, and also gets a shock if they are wrong. hehehe
@ Bullscot@14:
With Aussie rules they have to kick a ball through the posts to score, so hawk-eye can follow the ball easily. With rugby they won’t always be able to follow the ball over the try line.
How much will a system of cameras synced all around the field cost?
We are talking huuuuuuge bucks here, and we are talking way more cameras than other “open field” sports like cricket and tennis. It would have to be used in every game in a competition lol
Hiep Hiep Hoeraaaaa!!!!!!!
Ghoebaai Veldsman…..
@ MacroBok:
What cameras do they use? I don’t know much about how walk-eye works. I’ve seen it in action but how does the image recognition works, and how do they calculate the trajectory of the ball? How many angle of the ball is necessary to predict movement? How are they going to do this with an oval ball?
@ leon:
the thing isnt just the equipment costs. but sanzar or whoever will pay the hawkeye company a hefty fee for right to use their system… will need to do more research though.
@ leon:
Hawk-Eye is a complex computer system used officially in numerous sports such as cricket, tennis , Gaelic football ,
hurling and association football , to visually track the trajectory of the ball and display a record of its statistically most
likely path as a moving image. [1]
Hawk-Eye was developed in the United Kingdom by Dr Paul Hawkins. The system was originally implemented in 2001 for
television purposes in cricket. The system works via six (sometimes seven) high-performance cameras, normally
positioned on the underside of the stadium roof, which track the ball from different angles. The video from the six
cameras is then triangulated and combined to create a three-dimensional representation of the trajectory of the ball.
Hawk-Eye is not infallible and is accurate to within 5 millimetres (0.19 inch) but is generally trusted as an impartial
second opinion in sports. [2]
It has been accepted by governing bodies in tennis, cricket and association football as a technological means of
adjudication. Hawk-Eye is used for the Challenge System since 2006 in tennis and Umpire Decision Review System in
cricket since 2009. Hawk-Eye is currently in the process of being implemented in association football for the Goal
Decision System. The system was rolled out in time for the 2013-14 Premier League season as a means of goal-line
technology
does not matter what shape the ball is…
they would have to design a system that tracks trajectory which is one thing. but in rugby they would need to calculate the momentum as well.
@ MacroBok@22:
hmmm. I don’t know if I trust that system anymore. Maybe Tennis and soccer, but not cricket or anything with an oval ball. To many variables.
@ leon:
It is unclear how the system will be used though, so I’ll keep my mind open
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