They are strong, generally popular characters of the international rugby landscape and that is never a bad thing … but do brothers Bismarck and Jannie du Plessis take interaction with referees a bit too far?
The voices of the two Sharks front-rankers have been among the most consistently audible to mass audiences this season as far as spirited dialogue with Super Rugby officials is concerned.
Shrinks (and may I cheekily add, at the risk of generalisation, wives and girlfriends?) will tell you that communication is healthy.
Sport24
But in rugby, with 30 players on the field almost all the time and sophisticated television-geared technology picking up much of what is said at close quarters, it is unrealistic to permit limitless chatter between participants and the various match officials.
The captain has a greater licence, of course, to make his feelings on decisions – or non-decisions – known, so the younger of the Du Plessis Springboks, Bismarck, can be excused for the odd bout of constructive dissent, if you like.
But he is also in his first season as a leader, and there have arguably been instances where even he has come desperately close to crossing the line for just being too strident or enduringly “lippy” in his objections as he tests the good humour of referees.
Against the Lions at Ellis Park on Saturday, however, tighthead prop Jannie was particularly animated (not for the first time in his lengthy career) in his interpretation of sanction against him.
He made his feelings of disbelief clear to particularly seasoned and respected ref Craig Joubert after he was yellow-carded for a late shoulder barge on Lionel Mapoe.
The TV evidence looked damning enough … but then even after the final whistle, the opinionated doctor and stalwart of the No 3 jersey was clearly heard on the microphone protesting to Joubert as everyone shook hands: “But I didn’t change my line.”
Try selling us another rusty Ford Cortina, Jannie!
Let’s not forget that a few short weeks ago, when the Sharks beat the Reds in Durban, the big fellow made headlines for his (again very publicly audible) exchange with another local referee, Lourens van der Merwe, over binding issues at scrum-time.
“Don’t come and lecture me,” Du Plessis told the official, to the incredulity of many listening (and perhaps even Van der Merwe himself, who might otherwise have taken immediate, penalising action?).
To his credit, he did apologise on the post-match Monday to the official for his outburst.
But a potentially dangerous pattern is developing, I believe, of the Du Plessis duo pushing the boundaries of reasonable discussion with referees.
Hardly helping is that both have “previous”, as they say in legal jargon, for personal ill-discipline, which could just aggravate matters.
One of the SuperSport commentators – I cannot recall whether it was former Bok captain Bob Skinstad or lead voice Matthew Pearce – was spot-on at one point in saying words to the effect of: “We need to remember there are laws of rugby not necessarily compiled by the brothers Du Plessis.”
Yes, the Sharks continue to fly high but they have yet to undertake the trickiest part of the campaign – the overseas leg – where home-town crowd pressure and the likelihood of many of those games being policed by Australasian officials may see a less tolerant attitude to their protests.
I would not be at all surprised if Jake White has a quiet word about the hazards attached to the pair becoming too routinely back-chatty with refs.
He may have done so already?
They are wayyyyyyy too vocal and downright argumentative, to the point of coming accross as moaning ninnies!
Jannie should shut up, plain and simple – if he was a good player but he is just a lazy bugger riding on some unfounded stardom – weird that every time he is replaced the scrum looks better?
Bissie – should have never been made captain – his form suffers every time he opens his mouth and his boet also needs to say something
Both should take their pie en waai.
We don’t need rubbish like them in SA or SA rugby.
I did a lot of new news articles today… because yesterday was a total buggerup, with me doing some woodwork in the morning on our construction stuff here at the house and then getting ready and going to the yearly Arfikaans Music Awards, the Ghoemas at Carnival City, late afternoon and into the evening.
So, what I’m basically saying is that I did NOTHING on Rugby-Talk yesterday!
Why can’t Doc Jannie give his 99 cents worth…?
Doctors are pillars of the community after all…
Heard a comment today…
When Jake White made Bismarck the captain… the usual package deal was struck… and Jannie became the vice captain emeritus…!
@UFO
If that idiot gives his 99c worth, I would request change.
Nothing he says or does is of any value.
I’m also certain that in his case the refs will also go and ask for a second opinion.
I’ve seen football players conducting themselves better than those two and displaying more respect towards the referee.
“Oh, the Sharks win too much.” “Oh, the Sharks are too high on the ladder.” “Oh, the Sharks talk too much.”
And now the best hooker on the planet isn’t good enough for SA? 😆
Pathetic!
When are you girls going to stop whining about the Sharks?
kaksioek wrote:
Talking of whining girls….have you heard Bissie and Boetie when they speak?
Surely the captain (in this case Bismarck Du Plessis) must be talking to the referee.
The irony is that the whole country and all the media are talking about the lack of respect that these two buffoons have towards refs, but everybody else is the jealous bad guys, only the Sharks and their supporters are right. They are actually really good guys who value and respect referees, we just can’t see it because of the glare of all that silverware.
Yeah, right. Till Bismarck cops another red or yellow against refs that are not their chommies.
Bullscot wrote:
There is a difference between asking decent questions when relevant, and just acting like a know it all who wants to complain every time he is not happy.
It has a knock on effect, his own team mates sees the example he sets and also do the same.
We saw this weekend with McCloud also getting in on the act that the ref had to tell him that he has had enough of him and Bismarck.
Jannie is just the Sharks equivalent of the village idiot.
He just plays because his brother has it written in his contract that if he plays, his brother plays.
He spends 50 minutes a week doing buggerall, then gets subbed. If he gets tired, he cops a yellow and takes a breather.
11 @ nortierd:
The captain must keep chatting to ref but in way that endears the ref to the captain and his team.
Bullscot wrote:
That’s why Fitzpatrick, John Smit and Wood were such good hookers and captains.
They got respect from the ref because they respected the ref.
White has made an inmate warden.
At least this weekend we won’t have any of these issues, Dirty Peyper is reffing for the Sharks again and he is already with the program.
Expect the Sharks to get a 4 try bonus point win.
At some stage this year, either when they tour overseas or when the tests start, Bismarck will once again try his luck and run into a ref who will give him his marching orders.
12 @ Bullscot:
I take it you did not manage to watch the game itself, because then you would have gotten the correct idea of how Bissie & Jannie managed to incorrectly jabber on at the referee.
Sure the Captain has to talk to the referee, and voice his concerns… but there is a massive difference between bitching and moaning incessantly and chatting to the reeferee in the way a captain is supposed to do.
Look, Bissie is a fine player… and has been hard done by that swine, Poite, last year… and I would still say Bissie has captaincy potential, but heck someone would have to educate him on how to go about doing it.
His brother, Doc Jannie… ek dink nie daar is salf aan te smeer nie, nie eers medies voorgeskrewe salf nie!
@GBS
Bissie maai wat hy saai.
Hy het weggekom in die CC waar hy doelbewus op n speler getrap het.
Hy gaan weer vir ons n toets kos met sy vuilspel, maar nou het hy nog n lisensie gekry om sy ongemanierdgeid ook ten toon te stel.
Soos daai twee klink met hulle ou meisie stemmetjies kan hulle na rugby gaan toer as n Bee Gee tribute show.
@ nortierd:
Oh, what the Stormers would give for a Peyper – ne? Then they would surely be scoring tries left, right and centre. You are so blinded by raving, paranoid hate it’s quite unbelievable. WTF is wrong with you? Did some Sharks fan steal your boerie roll or what? You need help man.
16 @ kaksioek:
Kakkers, get yourself a Gravatar picture, a fat middle finger to show Norty… hehehe
kaksioek wrote:
Stormers won’t even be able to score tries against the blind school, they are that bad.
@ grootblousmile:
I’m more concerned for his mental stability than anything else.
@Kaki
For not liking the Du Plessis brothers?
Luckily for them they have enough adorning fans.
Even Oscar admits to more than the village idiot.
After the final whistle we could still hear him arguing with Craig that he didn’t do anything and didn’t deserve a yellow.
19 @ kaksioek:
Your team is doing well and they carry the SA flag for a win in the competition in 2014.
I try to be objective, but still see the errors in Bissie & Jannie’s ways at the moment… and it could start costing the Sharks, if they are not careful.
However, we are getting some bloody good performances from Frans Steyn, Marcell Coetzee, Mvovo and even Ryan Kankowski this season.
Pity about the injuries to Lambie, Pieter-Steph du Toit and now to Fred Zeilinga, but then again the Sharks depth is coming in handy now, at a time when the injury tolls are starting to count against the Bulls & Stormers.
grootblousmile wrote:
He did google for a Gravatar GBS.
He typed in Sharks Super Rugby Champions, but the search engine asked him…do you mean Bulls/Crusaders/Chiefs/Blues/Brumbies/Reds Super Rugby Champions.
Time for me to retire to the master bedroom… have a good one, folks… see you in the morrow!
@ grootblousmile:
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just think Nortierd is venturing too far into Skoppie territory, without the amusing ameliorating alliteration.
@ grootblousmile:
Cheers, keep up the good work.
14 @ grootblousmile:
Hi GBS not any at all but I gather from the comments here that there is unhappiness about Bissie’s manner in talking to the ref and his boet’s, agree that Jannie shouldn’t be chatting to the ref as that is for the captain. Mentioned last year that thought as good as he was that Bismarck could be a dirty player even more so after seeing what he did to that Free State player and questioned whether he should have been on the Bok end of year tour this side, definitely thought he shouldn’t be made captain at the Sharks. But there wasn’t too much aggro towards him in ‘blogland’ then with many still happy with him, so am just curious to see lots of negativity towards him these days, has he really got worse or has him being the captain put him in the spotlight or maybe has it got something to do with the rise of Sharks, tallest tree catching the wind and all that…
11 @ nortierd:
Regarding Jannie du Plessis, think that he has just been overplayed these last few years at Sharks and Boks so possibly just a bit jaded regarding his form. Various coaches have had him anchoring their scrum over the years, they can’t all be wrong.
So far this year the Sharks average a breathtaking 1.6 tries per game without Peyper.
The Sharks Legend haha
In and out. So its ok for everyone to bitch and moan over the refs every week but these two can’t? 😉
Nortier has some serious anti-sharks issues – close your local KFC down? You carry on from the depths of the gutter that’s as low as your team’s log position. Grow up sunshine, it’s not a good look.
Au revoir
My word, but the Shark and Du Plessis brother’s fans are so precious.
Talk about emo.
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