Having had a disturbed night’s sleep, and having blasted Romain Poite and his co-match officials here on Rugby-Talk, during and after the Rugby Championship match yesterday, it is fitting to have a look at what rugby analists, the rugby media here and abroad (including those from New Zealand), have to say.
Firstly, let’s look at the SuperSport media panel who sat during and after the match, with Nick Mallett (fromer Springbok coach) and John Mitchell (former All Blacks coach) the key ingredients here, augmented by Naas Botha (Former Springbok Captain) and Ashwin Willemse (former Springbok wing).
Both Mitchell and Mallett slammed referee Poite, point blank, so too Naas Botha and Ashwin Willemse.
Here’s a video exerpt of what these fine gentlemen had to say:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/LkptdOWWVIU[/youtube]
Similar lines of thoughts were forthcoming from the studio guests analising the match for the viewing public in Europe and in New Zealand.
Let’s have a look at the incident itself:
[youtube]http://youtu.be/hm0HbjO01U8[/youtube]
Now what do the esteemed journalists, rugby scribes and players accross the world have to say about this?
Let’s start with South african scribes:
JON CARDINELLI (SARUGBYMAG.CO.ZA)
‘Poite’s decision was based on an overwhelming reaction from the partisan New Zealanders in the stands. The crowd wanted Du Plessis off, and Poite obliged. It was gutless, and one would think that Poite will have a lot to answer for when fronting his bosses next week.’
ZELIM NEL (INDEPENDENT GROUP – SA)
‘The French referee allowed the crowd of 48,000 – and millions of TV viewers – to witness an even contest for just 32 minutes at Eden Park before reducing the crunch Rugby Championship Test to a sham … Carter was buried in a tackle that was not only legal, but of rare, premium quality. The partisan crowd blew up in unfiltered outrage and convinced Poite to ignore repeated slow motion replays on the big screen that clearly showed the behemoth hooker had delivered a legal hit.’
GAVIN RICH (WEEKEND ARGUS – SA)
‘Referees these days appear to be far too quick to brandish cards, and they’re having a massive impact on results … No doubt rabid All Blacks supporters will be happy about what happened, but most sensible people from both sides will probably feel like I do – cheated. The All Blacks celebrations were surely rendered hollow by the knowledge that they were playing 15 against 14 for more than half the match, and if they watch the replay of the first Du Plessis incident, which the referee had a chance to do on the big screen, then they will know that he was sent off for a hard but textbook tackle.’
LOUIS DE VILLIERS (RAPPORT – SA)
‘Pwat. Só spreek jy Romain Poite se naam uit; daai klank wat ’n skeidsregter se bakkies seker sou gee as jy ’n dwarsklap teen sy smoel plant. ’Skies, dis ongeskik. Maar dié Franse ploert se fluitjie was die uitstaande kenmerk van gister se Toets in Auckland tussen Nieu-Seeland en Suid-Afrika om die Rugby-kampioenskap, ene wat die tuisspan met 29-15 gewen het.’
CRAIG RAY (SUNDAY TIMES – SA)
‘Actions have consequences and that decision [to give Du Plessis his first yellow card] had awful ramifications for the Boks later on. Poite’s sub-standard officiating will also have ramifications for the rest of the tournament as the Boks are now four points behind the All Blacks in the Rugby Championship standings. But it will almost certainly have no consequences for Poite’s refereeing career.’
DAN RETIEF (CITY PRESS – SA)
‘Poite’s shocking rulings, especially in the first half, robbed the Boks of the massive presence of their hooker Bismarck du Plessis for 48 minutes of the match and completely spoiled what might have been a spectacle.’
RUDI GELDENHUYS (RUGBY-TALK.COM – SA)
The result of the game remains a contrived result, with match officials clearly at fault and to blame. I do not say New Zealand, it’s rugby fraternity or supporters are complicit.
The result is a flawed one, that much is clear! A flawed result which stays etched in rugby history for ever, it is there, it is recorded, despite the fact that it is wrong and unjust!
I do not have to condone, respect or recognise such a blatent blight.
I watched the whole match again, I watched the replays of the incidents and I still cringe at the ineptness of not only the referee (as main culprit), but the lack of clear direction from the TMO and other match officials.
A travesty is what we witnessed! To condone it would be wrong.
Now over to what the New Zealand scribes had to say:
LIAM NAPIER (FAIRFAX MEDIA – NZ)
‘The performance of French referee Romain Poite robbed the contest of its superstar status … Fed on a diet of spinach-flavoured biltong, Du Plessis is Popeye in disguise. Naturally, when Carter received a hospital pass and the big Boks rake simultaneously, he crumbled into a heap and slinked from the field with an AC shoulder injury that will keep him out of action for four to six weeks. The subsequent decision to sin-bin du Plessis, though, was a shocker. It was a legal tackle. Arms were used. Sense should have prevailed.’
WYNNE GREY (NEW ZEALAND HERALD)
‘The red card had a massive effect on the game. Adding to the significance of it all, Bismarck du Plessis was having an absolute stormer. There seemed to be two of him – he was all over the park but especially good in the tight stuff, winning a couple of crucial turnovers with his strength and timing. And he scored the Boks’ first try.’
MARK HINTON (SUNDAY STAR-TIMES – NZ)
He described Poite’s decision to dismiss du Plessis as “farcical” and said it tilted the match in the All Blacks’ favour.
“The hooker’s shoulder-charge on Carter looked dodgy, but replays showed the hit was legit and that referee Romain Poite had over-reacted big time,”
DAVID LONG (FAIRFAX MEDIA – (NZ)
The first yellow card “was an extremely harsh call on the Sharks No 2, as his tackle on Dan Carter was perfectly timed and legal”.
Former All Blacks captain Sean Fitzpatrick, in his Herald on Sunday column, said he also felt the tackle on Carter was legitimate.
He questioned why “a referee can have that much influence on a game with so much (video) technology available” to review the incident.
GREGOR PAUL (Herald on Sunday – NZ)
Carter was “fair game” and du Plessis had been onside, but he felt that the South African had deserved a red card for the second offence alone, when he rammed his elbow into the throat of Liam Messam.
“The first offence was not a yellow, although what Bismarck du Plessis did with his head looked bad. But the second offence was a straight red. Seriously bad.”
PATRICK McKENDRY (APZN – NZ)
How much effect did the red card have on the outcome?
A massive one. Adding to the significance of it all, Bismarck du Plessis was having an absolute stormer. There seemed to be two of him – he was all over the park but especially good in the tight stuff, winning a couple of crucial turnovers with his strength and timing. Scored the Boks’ first try.
Was the red card justified?
No, because his tackle on Dan Carter was legal. The spotlight for the decison to sin bin him must fall on referee Romain Poite, who appeared to dismiss the advice of his TMO George Ayoub. However, once back on the field, de Plessis should have reigned himself in a little. The elbow to the windpipe of Liam Messam wasn’t a good look.
What Rugby Players had to say:
DAN CARTER (TWITTER – NZ)
Nothing wrong with the tackle. Fell awkwardly and popped my AC joint #gutted #smashedembro.
FORMER ALL BLACKS CAPTAIN TAINE RANDELL (NZ)
Fans have been robbed of the crunch game of the year.
Writing in his column for Fairfax Media, Randell said: ‘Romain Poite’s officiating ruined last night’s Test between the All Blacks and the Springboks, a game between the world’s two best sides.
‘I am so disappointed with the way a number of controversial decisions, which still don’t make any sense to me, dictated the game.
‘Bismarck du Plessis’s yellow card for a legitimate tackle on Dan Carter was totally unfair, his second yellow which led to red was also marginal and as a fan I’ve not been able to watch the best of what we’ve got, against the best of South Africa.
‘Last night’s game was not decided on equal measure and at this level of the game, that is not acceptable.’
Leaves a totally rotten taste in the mouth, does’nt it?
28 @ fender:
Jinne maat, cool heads is OK, ek glo ook daaraan… maar ons moet mos maar iewers ‘n ou strepie trek en sê basta met hierdie kakkas, nie waar nie!
Kyk, aan die uitslag kan ons nou niks doen nie, en die wat iets kan doen is dalk te slap om iets te doen. Dit beteken nie regdenkende cool heads moet die stront opvreet asof dit witbrood met kaaitjiebotter op is nie… dit bly mos stront, al word dit verdoesel!
… anders gaan dit mos maar so aanhou, tot almal vir almal moer….
11 @ fender:
Fender,
Mallett said basically what I have said. How could the ref make such a blunder with the technology that was there for him to use? HOW? The week before the start of the Wallabies/Bok game the IRB new rule allowed refs to look up at the big screen and make a decision from there. There was no room here to make a huge mistake like that. It was put up on the big screen for everyone to see over and over and he choice not to look up to the screen. That was negligence on his part. What I read about journalists that were there said the crowd was extremley hostile and that it intimated the ref. Now we can’t have weak minded refs that get intimated by the crowd. Another thing the tmo must have seen that Bissie used his arms and hands. So why did he not tell the ref? He also probably thought the ref was looking up on the screen. Or the tmo’s screen cant go back to the tackle made on Carter. The ref could have reversed his yellow card he said he was going to give, if he looked up and saw what HAD actually happened. Use the technology it is there for a reason so we cut down on mistakes.
I agree though with the journalists that were there and said the crowd intimated him with their consisting booing of Bissie. Which was a disgrace.
Anyhow it is all gone and dusted now.
We just have to play some great rugby at Ellis Park and beat them and put this behind us.
It is a sad day when the team gets announced for that week and the first thing you look at is who will official the game. Then look who has made it into the team that week. should be the other way round. We should rather be looking head to head of each player from both teams.
The first damn thing I look at is who is the official for this game? I do it with my Sharks and I do it with the Boks. What a shame it has come to that. The officials have to try and better their officiating. It is now made a little easier for them by looking up on the big screen. If they choice not to look up at the big screen, then I have no sympathy for them if the public of any country have a go at them. Use the technology that is given to you and it is there for a reason to cut down on the errors made.
Perspective perhaps?
30 @ The_Young_Turk:
Yes Gobbles…. I hear you…
Now just tell me where in this Article (the article itself or the comments) did I insult the rest of the world… I am damning the referee and the match officials, not New Zealand, it’s people, supporters or the All Blacks.
I humoristically made mention on another Article (McLook’s Respect Article) that French cars will be scratched & French perfume will be thrown away… but that was clearly in jest and followed with the necssary laugh at what I said at the end.
I cannot accept this game result or acknowledge it, for the simple reason that it is farsical, but that does not mean I abhore New Zealand or it’s people or wish them less than well…
We have a forum here, that is recognised in the world and relaying our dissatisfaction with the state of affairs is valid, if tempered and directed in the right direction. The referee and his cohorts and those who have to see that they are forced to keep the standards pure is and should be our aim here and if enough pressure is exulted from all over we might just force them as a powerful combined world force (R-T, all other media outlets and supporter outrage) to better our game in the future.
How is that not keeping “Cool Heads” in the process?
PS! I am not Poite, I blew no whistle… I did not get it wrong and ruin a world spectacle game of rugby… I am against ruining a world spectacle of rugby!
Gbs, nee ek stem – jy moes gesienit hoe ek Saterdag my sofa inne trampoline veranner het. Ma ek het van my sportjare geleer om dinge ma oppie veld te los, my eie geel en rooikaarte ten spyt……
Jy kannie ‘n fight mette ref wennie en nog minner mettie ref se baas. As jy vanne goeie plan weet wat kan werk dan sal ek jou support, ma arrewise…
21 @ The_Young_Turk:
Well Turk, Sometimes a tmo does go further and say more than was asked of him. Remember the penalty try that Lions got over your Province in the CC at Ellis Park? Well the tmo there did say I HAVE SOME MORE INFORMATION FOR YOU IF I CAN GIVE IT. Which the ref agreed to hear. It was the time that De Allende came in from the side in the tackle and stopped Boshoff from scoring. Because we heard that was a illegal tackle as he should have come from behind. As Groom had already tackled Boshoff to the ground. So penalty try given and the ref said I am giving a yellow card then the tmo said correct. Tmo was only asked by the ref if Boshof had grounded the ball. He said a whole lot more mate.
So some tmos will tell more what they saw than what they were asked to look at.
36 @ fender:
Gelukkig biets en moan ons nie alleen hier op R-T nie.
Daar word oral so gebiets… en miskien maak dit klompie slapende moegoes wakker genoeg om vinger uit eie poepol te trek vir so rukkie!
Nick Mallett, John Mitchell, Naas Botha, Taine Randell en ‘n horde wêreld joernaliste biets gelukkig saam, so ek voel in goeie company!
Puma, I hear you but broer, refs is refs…..and they will screw up – some nights only a few monor errors and other nights they will have a mare like Poite.
37 @ Puma:
The bloody TMO should have simply said, Having reviewed the footage, the tackle was legal and that no sanction should follow, apart from saying that there was no foul play in the scuffle afterwards… but he simply did not have the gonads to do so…
40 @ grootblousmile:
I agree with you Gbs. He should have done that and it would have saved all this fiasco now. Also we would have had a fair contest as well. The tmo is there to say what he saw, not only just look at what was asked. Use the technology that is there. The very thing Mallett said as well.
Please tell me why Bissie has to carry a yellow card for the duration of this RC? I am lost with this. If that is the case and he picks up yellow in the next game he will be off with a red? Or do I have it wrong? Asked some on keo and never got a proper reply back.
Why should Bissie carry a yellow card for the duration of the RC now? WHY? He was cleared of the red card so don’t understand it. Unless if you get a yellow card you carry that into the next game. Then why must he have it carried for two games?
39 @ fender:
It was the biggest game of the year as well. Was heart breaking really to see he actually got it wrong and it cost us dearly his mistake. He really had the technology to avoid making that mistake. He should have used it. Also there were quite a few people that flew out to this game. I wonder how they felt travelling that far to watch a no contest game? This mess up should never happen again. Ruined it for all. Also the players. After training so hard and knowing once Bissie was off they were never really going to get into this game. It must have been hard to take in. Felt for all of them and especially Bissie after the crowd kept booing him. Disgraceful really.
I am with Mitchell here. There should be no sending off for a yellow card. Rather punish the player after by him missing a game. Playing 14 against 15 at this level will always be a no contest game. Ruins if for everyone.
Also we really can’t have French refs officiating two English speaking sides. Also the audience watching had no damn clue what Poite and the assistant ref was discussing on the side line.
No Puma – the biggest game of the yaer will be the return match at Ellis Park!
35@ @ grootblousmile:
Nowhere in the article did you insult the rest of the world. I am referring here more to comments during the game itself which got a bit out of hand. It may have been wise for you to just have asked the guys to tone it down a bit. That is one of the main reasons that things got nasty on keo as you know. It’s a torrid, flame war whenever a kiwi or ozzie is present there and here on RT I am referring to our kiwi blogger (Ngi gau or something- sorry I forgot how to spell the name). He took offense at some of the comments and said he will never come back which is a huge pity.
Bad calls happen. Which of us care about the bad result for the ABs at the 2007 WC? All that we remember and celebrate is that the Boks won while the kiwis “cried” about it for years and we mocked them because our team won. Now none of us forget the 2011 WC and the kiwis in their turn don’t care.
We’ve got to get it right for the sake of everbody.
37@ @ Puma:
The TMO at the moment doesn’t have the authority to make calls on which the ref has already made his decision. There were refs who overstepped their authority earlier on but they were reprimanded and now the refs tow the line. Sure the TMO could have shown some balls and OVERSTEPPED his authority but we can’t accuse him of incompetence. He was just following the rules.
As many people have said countless times over and over again – the officiating is a shambles with many ridiculous decisions everywhere. It needs to be sorted out properly for all our benefit.
43 @ fender:
Well before the Auckland game both teams were almost level pegging on the log. It made that game huge. Now we playing catch up again when should never have been. If we lost 15 against 15 I would have accepted it totally.
Also if we did play 15 against 15 I doubt there would have been much in it. 3 or 5 points. It could have been us or them. I doubt that there would have been 4 tries against us as well.
With the ref getting it so horribly wrong it has ruined it a bit. We now have to play out our minds to get the 5 log points against Wallabies in Cape Town. That too is not always easy. ABs will pick up the 5 log points against the Pumas. So if it is that way coming to Ellis Park it will be huge. We then still 4 points behind them. Again we may have to win by 4 tries to secure the Cup. Or if our point difference is more than theirs we may still win it. Just looks rather tough for us from here. It should never have been. We should have at least picked up a losing bonus point and them 4 points from the game. Would have been a lot easier to chase then.
Anyhow we still have it in our hands to go out there and do it.
I heard that all the seats at Ellis Park has been sold as well. This will be a war I tell you…… hahaha. Huge battle coming up. All we ask is the ref must do his part properly this time. Both sides want a fair contest.
I hope we win playing outstanding rugby. The last time we beat them there with Jake’s Boks in 2004 we got 5 tries against them. They got 2. Boks won 40-26 Hope to see something like that again. Would be great.
44 @ The_Young_Turk:
The tmo then needs to have more say. As he has the screen in front of him to go over and over the incident. Probably the reason the IRB has allowed the ref to call what he sees on the big screen.
I remember Lourens Van der Merwe has done that for a long time. He will ask the tmo something and then tell him he will look as well and call it himself. He has been doing it for longer than when the IRB said it was allowed last week for refs to look up at the screen and call it from there. Unless SR he could do it there and now it is allowed in international rugby. Have no idea, but Van der Merwe has done it for a long time this year. Because of that he does get those calls right.
Refs have to use the technology that is given to them to use. We want to cut down on mistakes and they must use it.
Anyhow good news for my Sharks is that we get back Marcell Coetzee this week. Think our loosies have played every game in the CC so far. So expect one to get a rest this week.
45@ @ Puma:
No doubt the result has put us at a disadvantage and now our path to the cup is a lot more difficult. As you say, we now have to beat the Wobblies and get a bonus. Fortunately they are not playing well and we have a good chance to do it. I would love us to be able to smash the All Blacks by more than 17 points in the return match at Ellis Park and go on to win the Cup. Oh how sweet it would be if we managed to go on to win the Cup after this last farce. It would be a massive “up yours” if we could pull it off and make a bigger statement than anything else. The world, rightly or not, only remember winners and not whiners!
48 @ The_Young_Turk:
It will be really difficult now. This blunder by the ref has changed the whole thing for us. I seriously doubt they would have scored 4 tries against us if we have 15 men playing. We might have not either. They could have still won it but not with a bonus point and as you saw we almost came very close on the end to score and get ourselves a losing bonus point. They then were down to 13 men and us still 14. It sways if you a man down that easy.
Now we have to beat oz with 4 tries. Then go into the Ellis Park game and beat them probably with 4 tries as well. If they pick up a losing bonus point we all but done. That is why the blunder at Auckland has not almost ruined this RC for all of us. If we both get 4 tries and then they lose by less than 7 they win, even with only one losing bonus point they will win. That is all they need. So the biggest game of this year was always going to be in Auckland. That was the game that was going to decide who wins it probably.
We still may have to see how they go against Arg. Think they will pick up 4 tries this time round.
Ag, just so disappointed really how it has turned out because of one mistake made by the ref. Shame really. Anyhow we may still win just have to see. If we don’t really hope we beat them with a outstanding performance. We did in 2004 at Ellis Park by 5 tries.
48 @ The_Young_Turk:
Would be great to have them tour here again. That would be the ultimate dream. Maybe one day that will come back the tours.
44 @ The_Young_Turk:
One has to be careful not to rule the blog like a dictator or despot… and allow some freedom of expression.
What was said during game time was said in the heat of battle, in very unfavourable circumstances for the Springboks.
Nick Mallett, John Mitchell and the scribes are ad idem with us on the stance we took in voicing dissatisfaction during and after the game, and I am happy to allow that same freedom of expression here.
It did not result in a spat on the blog during the game, none of the bloggers climbed into one another and the game thread was handled to my satisfaction.
It is easy to criticize, until you sit in my shoes as moderator / webmaster of this blog… and so far in the 4 years this website has functioned well and with the necessary circumspection.
If people are unhappy, let them take it up with me and I’ll deal with it on it’s merits.
Same applies to you, if you are unhappy, take it up with me, until then let me run things how I see fit and according to the method and norms we have set down as a community over time, which has worked.
If you think injustice will be swept under a carpet for the sake of one contributor, who favours one side (wrongly on top of it), then you sre wrong. We are supposed to be able to voice opinions, so long as it is done in an orderly manner. The New Zealand scribes and journalists so happen to support the fact that Poite was wrong, the IRB has admitted it, SARU is unhappy and has acted on it, the Rugby Judiciary has spoken and said the Bismarck 1st Yellow was wrong.
This is not Voldy (Keo) and will never become that, I’ll make damn sure of it, that you can be certain about. I have full control here, keep a firm grip, yet I want people to say what needs to be said and that balance makes one sometimes look like you do not allow opposite opinion, resistance or enough freedom… guess you can safely say one can’t please all the people all of the time but most of the people most of the time.
In other words, we have backed the right and just horse in this one… and hopefully we continue to do so!
The discussion here is a case in point, you feel different from some others… so we need to allow that opinion too, for good balance, just as you need to accept that others have a difrefent opinion and approach to yours.
Did anyone listen to Mallett on Balls Radio? Was excellent again. Go listen to what he had to say.
Also Jannie spoke to Scot as well.
http://www.ballz.co.za/sport/nick-mallett-talks-about-the-springboks-and-new-zealand-test-and-poite/2771
http://www.ballz.co.za/sport/jannie-du-plessis-talks-about-the-loss-at-the-weekend-bismarck-poite/2772
Have a look at the Stuart Barnes article. Good read and does make one think a bit here. Not sure if I agree but it does make you think about it.
http://www.skysports.com/opinion/story/0,25212,12062_8924780,00.html
52 @ Puma:
Excellent sound bites!
53 @ Puma:
Had a look at it much earlier already… and once again it confirms our stance of bitter disapointment.
@51 @ 44 – Things were said in the heat of the battle. I am guilty of some of the things that were said. But just as the bad decisions made by the referee most of us said things that should not have been said. But this is how we learn how to control and voice ourselfs better in the future.
But in all fairness Nga_Pui also attacked members personaly in his comments, one would say his reactions were a bit more justified as he only retaliated. But at the end he did the same as the rest of us.
In one of your comments you voiced as well that some of the reactions were idiotic. Which in the heat of a moment can also be seen as a personal attack.
AS said aswell we as SA supporters are passionate about rugby. As any team we don’t like losing, but losing while being cheated makes it worse. And I think the frustration of this just boiled over on the weekend. As this is the second time since 2011 that we have lost a game due to blatant bad refereeing. In 2011 it was a QF and this time a win could have put us on the top of the world rankings. And that is what the frustration is about. It would seem that every time SA is about a achieve a milestone this happens.
@ Timothy Bornman:
Maybe i choose my words wrong, i think lately i commented more in Afrikaans, because the English does not come out right when angered. But a few things i said i will say again.
Those of you who know me might call me a prophet because from the start i felt the Referees are overawed by the NZ Rugby machine. They milked the rugby comunity and almost every country suffered from NZ bias. Take the 2011 final against France. Take a look what was said even right here on RT about that result. No ways could the French win that one on NZ soil.
We at RT are not the only ones that is fedup with this, the whole cyber world are abuzz.
What we must do now is let the specific insidents die out but lets work hard to fix the protocols and Laws easier to implement and enforced.
The protocols around a Red card is most important.
We must come up with real solutions and force the IRB to simplify the game.
Get rid of most interpretations, etc.
If one wants to dwell further on the Tackle , here is some more reading
http://www.sareferees.com/News/law-discussion-that-red-card/2829987/
“Before we do, let’s look at the matter of injury. Definition. A sports injury is any bodily damage sustained during participation in competitive or non-competitive athletic activity. This can occur in most sports – perhaps not as frequently in bowls, golf, darts and billiards-related games, which may or may not be considered ‘athletic activity’! According to the Laws of the Game foul play is a defined type of action. The injury is an exacerbating circumstance only if the cause of the injury is illegal. Injury does not equate to foul play
Rugby football is a contact sport. Its Law allow tackling, pushing, jumping, handing off, charging into – all activities which could cause injury. The player who plays rugby, contracts to be involved in those possibly harmful activities. But he does not contract to play outside of the Laws of the Game. If those activities are carried out legally there is no sanction, even if a player is injured”
I see that someone has rewritten Poite’s Wiki page to have it solely concentrate on last Saturday’s error. Compare the French version to the English one and you’ll see.
I can only hope that the culprit is not from these shores…
Former Springbok hooker JOHN ALLAN says rugby officials need to improve and remember that rugby is a contact sport.
Enough is enough. I have had it with referees and the way people mollycoddle New Zealand, especially when it comes to taking them to task for bordering on ‘cheating’ as opposed to being ‘streetwise’.
I watched in dismay on Saturday when Bismarck du Plessis was handed two yellow cards, and then a red. He couldn’t believe it and neither could the rest of the rugby-playing world who still think rugby should be hard and physical. Dr Danie Craven, the architect of South African rugby, and the legendary commentator Bill McLaren must be turning in their graves.
@ fender:
i saw it on Sunday, some nasty Afrikaans names were used. I did not even knew you can do it , i would have been tempted
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