Retired flank Hendre Fourie was good enough to play for England, but now that he has quit rugby he is set to be repatriated by the country he represented in eight Tests.
Fourie revealed on Monday that he is poised to return to South Africa, because he cannot get a visa to remain in England.
rugby365
The 33-year-old flank announced his retirement last week, after because of a shoulder injury.
Once his contract with Sale Sharks was cancelled, his visa was no longer valid.
The 33-year-old, whose 18-month-old son Hendro was born in England, has been in the country for eight years – having played for Rotherham (52 games), Leeds (71) and Sale – who he joined last year and played just three matches before the injury ended his career.
He played in eight Tests for England since his debut in 2010.
“I can play for England, but I can’t get a passport to stay in the country,”he told The Times.
“If I had remained on a sports people visa for another two years, I would have got residency, but unless someone is willing to give me another contract, that is not going to happen.
“My wife [Corlia] is South African, but my boy was born here and I would like to have stayed here and tried to get a teaching job.
“There were options to appeal but I would have had to wait another few years before I could get my permanent residency.
“It has been a red-tape nightmare and we just decided it was not worth all the hassle.
“That’s the amazing thing, I am not able to claim any benefits in this country. I have always paid my taxes, have represented England, but I have to leave while you hear how they protect the rights of terrorists.”
Fourie joined Rotherham Titans eight years ago on a working holiday visa and later switched to an international graduate visa when studying for a teaching degree.
A move to play for Leeds Carnegie would lead to a tier-one highly skilled visa and England selection in 2010.
It looked as though Fourie may earn a place in England’s 2011 World Cup squad only for his injury curse to strike again in the final warm-up game against Ireland – his last appearance for his adopted country.
His transfer to Sale that same year triggered another change to a tier-two sports people visa that expired when his contract with the Sharks was cancelled.
A UK Border Agency spokesperson told the newspaper: “Anyone studying or working in the UK must abide by the terms of their visa. If an individual’s circumstances change and they no longer meet the terms of their specific visa they can apply for a visa of a different type that better fits their needs.”
How cool is that… you play in a country for 8 years… you’re good enough to represent that country in 8 Tests… but you’re not good enough to be afforded a visa, having gotten an injury in the country in the game you played there.
If I were Hendre, I would tell them to get knotted and do everything in my power to sabotage or counter England sport and rugby in future.
You would think after living in England for 8 years and playing for them he would be able to get a passport? Look we have Majuti that played for us, lived in SA for years and he is unable to get a passport as well. I feel both have been hard done by from both countries.
Another thing in future only players holding citizenship should be allowed to play for that country. Why is it that is not made law? How can players play for a country if they are not a citizen of that country? This is nonsense now and should be stopped. Also it should be you have to live in a country for 5 years before been allowed to represent that country after you have gained citizenship. Not 3 years like it is for some.
2 @ Puma:
Mujati’s case is considerably different.
Yes he played for the Springboks but he never initially concluded the required steps for his South African Citizenship from Zimbabwe before he left for the UK. One can in fact make a very valid argument that he should not have played for the Springboks when he did, simply because he did not qualify to do so at the time.
So, as a Non-South African who does not even reside in South Africa (and has not for a number of years now), you tell me how he would be able to get Citizenship or Permanent Residency for SA now… not being a SA Citizen AND not Living here! I think South Africa’s policy relevantly recently instituted that you would have to qualify and indeed have Citizenship or Permananent Residency in South Africa to be able to qualify for our National side, is a very healthy policy to have….
Remember the Beast Mtawarira situation a while ago? He had to get his SA Residency first to be able to play for the Bokke.
Compare that now to Hendre Fourie… still resident in the UK…. and continiously so now for 8 years.
Some guys have it easier than others, getting much quicker Residency and Citizenship, through ancestry and decent… guess Hendre was’nt that lucky or fortunate!
Mujati was’nt hard done by, he did himself in by not getting his SA Passport before leaving SA, and by leaving without it he compounded his own situation. As jy dom EN astrant is moet jy mos maar kak, of hoe?
There are various ways and various time stipulations for good reason for Residency and Citizenship – all over the world… the question is do you qualify for it through ancestry or marriage or only by means of naturalization or some other factor.
Check these links:
1. http://www.home-affairs.gov.za/Citizenship.html
2. http://www.southafrica-newyork.net/homeaffairs/citizenship.htm
^^
What Puma said
Years ago, when South Africa still policed illegal aliens in South Africa properly, the ones taking chances from accross the borders up north and to the east of SA, usually “BOUGHT” themselves “PARENTS” here in South Africa and due to the nature of the Statutes that births could be registered late, sometimes years and years after the fact.. they often got away with it.
Immigration had special task forces in SA, who would interview these supposed South African Citizens, asking them questions about where they grew up, where they went to school, who they associated with when young… and sometimes more important, about their language skills. For instance, a young adult black Shangaan male who supposedly grew up and lived in the rural Afrikaans oriented platteland who could not speak ANY Afrikaans, but could speak some Portugese, was a dead give-away that the person came over from Mozambique…. and so on.
Of course today we have more Zimbabweans in SA than Zimbabwe have Zimbabweans themselves in Zimbabwe, same with Mozambicans.
These days, often when people are repatriated to Zimbabwe or Mozambique, they’re back quicker in Joburg than the okes who drove them there in the first place… hehehehe
The rules of the IRB state that if you are resident in a country for 3 years, and have not played international Rugby AT SENIOR LEVEL you can qualify to play for the country of residence.
That was the ruling that was exploited by SARU when the beast and Mujati FIRST played for SA. Only later did the SA govt change the rules to say that they would not allow a non citizen to represent SA at national level at any sport.
The same rule has been used by Ireland in the case of Strauss and the French in numerous instances.
Truth be told the Uk are particularly sensitive about people living there who “do not qualify”.
A point in fact is my own nephew. His mother was born in England and lived there for the first 13 years of her life. She maaried a Saffa and my nephew was born in 1981 (or 2).
She then had a daughter some 12 years later (from the same husband).
After her husband coimmited suicide she decided to go back to the UK. Her son was nearly 18 but they didn’t expect any problems as he had an English mother. However, the UK law at the time stated that if you were born beofre a certain date, in order to qualify for a UK passport, you had to have an ENGLISH FATHER OR PATERNAL GRANDFATHER. The Mother’s nationality was irrelevant.
The UK government deported the son back to SA 6 weeks after his 18th birthday, but the daughter who was born after the cut off date for the law that saw her brother deported was summarily given a UK passport.
Strange indeed.
The law has since been changed after it was challenged in the UK courts as gender discrimination and my nephew now has a UK passport and lives over there.
Fooking strange indeed.
So, in conclusion, if poor Mr Fourie doesn’t have a UK born parent or grandparent, and he can’t get classified as a person with specified skills that are deemed as critical to the Country, he will get kicked out. (They won’t repatriate him, he’ll have to pay his own way back unless he can prove that he’s indigent.)
Just bad luck that he couldn’t have lasted another 2 years and qualified for residency. If he hadn’t moved to Sale and Leeds hadn’t got relegated maybe Leeds could have found a way to extend his contract.
Unfortunately the UK government are VERY INFLEXIBLE in matters such as this.
Good luck fella.
They are inflexible indeed. My wife qualified for a UK passport, but her brother, 4 years older does not qualify, and their mother was born in the UK.
8 @ Lion4ever:
The law has changed in the las couple of years. My nephew eventually applied for and got a UK passport in 2011.
@ Scrumdown:
Wifey was born some years before your nephew. I am giving away my age, she was born in ’63. My brother in law was born in ’58 or ’57. My wife qualified only because she was born after a certain date. That was about 5 years ago.
7 & 9 @ Scrumdown:
8 & 10 @ Lion4ever:
Guess I’m totally screwed then… my ancestry goes back in SA to 1661… and before that it was not from the UK either, it was German.
Hehehehe
… but I have special skills… and not only those the ladies like….. hehehehe
Flok, ek bly maar hier in Afrika, want ek is ‘n man van Afrika!
At least I don’t have to prove my SA Citizenship….
STEM!
Dalk moes die man maar in sy Vaderland gebly het, dan nie al die k@k nou gehad nie, of hy moet maar die exchange rate gebruik en ‘n dorp of twee kom koop
12 @ Gena_ZA:
Lykmy al wat hy mooi reggekry het is om ‘n klein Ingelsmannetjie te bou daar in Engeland…. nie veel meer nie.
Jis die site sal nou rerig kan doen met ‘n chatbox, sommer vir lekker rugga gesels (net n voorstel)
7 @ Scrumdown:
Very right, that was the law at the time, that only if you have a British Father or Grand Father you qualified for citizenship. Whether your mother was born there or not, it did not matter one could not get a British passort through a mother at the time. Also you had to apply before 1986 I think it was, as after that you could not get one either even if you had a British Father or Grand Father if you were born outside of the country and were not registered at birth as British. Think it has all changed again, not very sure think so.
Strange reading that your nephew could not get citizenship but the daughter born later could, must have been confusing that. They do mess it up sometimes over there.
14 @ Gena_ZA:
Het al ‘n Chatbox hier gehad, maar die probleem is, daardie ou comments verdwyn en kannie behoorlik in ‘n Argief geplaas word soos comments nie.
4 @ grootblousmile:
Look I am not sure what went on with Mujati. However, opinion is that if a player can play for that country he should be allowed citizentship. Rather daft to allow a player to play for a country when he is not even a citizen of that country. That is my argument from both countries, they messed up. Both should be given a passport having represented that country. The problem I mentioned in my post below is that NO player should be allowed to play for a country unless he has citizenship. That has be the law for all countries, then we will not see this mess up again. A country does look rather foolish having had a player play for them then deny them citizenship. It needs to be sorted out. Also a player should live in that country for 5 years first before being allowed to play for that country, once he has citizenship of course. The only players that exclude the 5 year waiting is players that have Parents that were born in that country they want to represent. That is the way it should be.
Sorry never read you clip, will do later.
The simple truth is with England they bend the rules as it suits them when it comes to visas etc. they do not really care for those they use to further their aims.
Any South African should think 20 time never mind 2 times before just playing for them, Living in any country in excess of 5 years normally gives you residency,
So fourie was used and abused, and then got kicked to the curb
If fourie now returns to SA and lets say he recovers from his injuries??? then surely he has the right to refuse to play for England, and if the Boks wanted him I know I would fight it. You might even find his case would stand up in a court of law
Saru should also warn out kids of being misused like this by the Leech Poms,
19 @ Sharks_forever:
No it won’t stand up in court… he made his bed and must sleep in it.
Verstaan, het al ‘n paar sites myself gedoen en chatbox history is altyd die issue
Sal steeds baie lekker wees om net ‘n bietie te kan gesels oor enigiets rugby gewys en nie net op created threads nie
22 @ Gena_ZA:
Ons sal maar sien hoe dinge gaan hier, maar nouja, die Comments refresh mos nie stadig nie… so ek sien dit nie as ‘n wesenlike knelpunt nie.
Onthou ‘n ander ding, mens jaag tot ‘n mate page impressions, vir verskeie redes.
‘n Chatbox sou ook die noodwendige gevolg hê dat sekere bladsye (Artikels) lyk of hulle nie aandag kry of gelees word nie, gewoonlik is ‘n aanduiding van genoeg comments ‘n aanduiding dat die Artikel gewild is, so ‘n Chatbox sal heelwat wegneem daarvan.
Wel noted Sir
Laaste vragie – as ons iets wil bespreek, moet mens request dat jy die artikel skep of moet ons wag en kyk wat voorgele word?
Wie mag nuwe artikels begin?
Thanks vir alles steeds!!
24 @ Gena_ZA:
Gena_ZA,
Ek hou die ouens dop hier op R-T, hoe hulle blog en hoe hulle kwaliteit rugby praat, ek weeg hulle vir gereelde bydraes en kennis, daai ouens nooi ek uit om deel te word van ons Author Garde hier.
Ek het jou dopgehou, geweeg… en het bevind jy is blerrie geskik om ook Artikels vir en saam met ons te skrywe. Sien jy kans daarvoor?
Indien so, en ek hoop jy lees hierdie Comment, stuur vir my ‘n vinnige Mailtjie na webmaster@rugby-talk.com
Ons deel dan vir jou ook ‘n Offisiele Rugby-Talk Mailadressie uit, en verander jou status van gebruiker na die van Author, sodra Ek die mailtjie ontvang het. Ek en jy gesels dan vinning oor hoe Artikels funksioneer en gedoen word, en jy spring weg en skrywe vir en saam met ons.
Ons is meer as net ‘n rugby Nuus webwerf, ons is ‘n gemeenskap van eendersdenkende rugbyliefhebbers, en ons staan saam om dit te maak werk hier. Dis ons leuse en ons etos.
What Brian Moore had to say courtesy of bbcsport.com – “Had he continued with his employment he would still have a visa and he could still stay here, he has a child who was born here,” said former England hooker Moore.
“He got injured playing for his country. He was asked to play, he’s got the injury which now terminates his contract, which now sends him home, which seems totally, totally invidious to me.
“What I would like to see is anyone like him who makes a national contribution, whether it be in sport or the arts or in some way an extraordinary contribution to this country, is given extra ‘points’ so they can stay, and maybe get the visa or even the passport they deserve, and if that sets a precedent then yes, fine.
“The precedent is that when you make a huge contribution to your nation then you can have extra points too.
“The irony is he didn’t get injured playing for Sale, he got injured playing for England, and now the UK wants to kick him out,”
….BBC Sport understands Fourie, who has a teaching degree, has now been approached by several schools interested in offering him employment and helping him stay in the country.
Some good news – I read in the Telegraph this morning that Fourie has been told that he can stay in England
28 @ Just For Kicks:
Expected that to happen. Think he will be feeling relieved. Probably wanted to build a new life there anyhow so pleased for him that he can stay.
yes it is confirmed
“Former England flank Hendre Fourie has been told by immigration officials that he does not have to leave Britain.
According to The Telegraph, officials from the UK Border Agency contacted Fourie on Tuesday after he revealed he was moving back to South Africa because he thought his working visa had been terminated by the Sale Sharks on his enforced retirement.
‘We have not curtailed Mr Fourie’s visa at this time and he is not required to leave the UK,’ a UK Border Agency spokesman said. ‘His employment contract with Sale Rugby Club has been terminated and his employer has rightly informed UKBA of this decision. We are considering what action to take next.
‘If an individual’s circumstances change and they no longer meet the terms of their specific visa they can apply for a visa of a different type. Mr Fourie has been informed of the process and the various options available to him. It is entirely up to him if he chooses to explore any of them further”
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