I am even though I have tried to see this in a positive light, of the opinion that Lambie is being set up here to fail.
Since joining the Bok setup Lambie has been coached to play differently, and also one can see his kicking style has changed, as well as his tackling, another thing of course as mentioned he now stands deep in the pocket.
Now for me it is no use telling one player he can play his natural style and not the rest of his team mates who are not used to the style Lambie normally plays, bar of course one or 2 of the players.
If one looks at the forwards it is easy to see why a plain running rugby style struggles as the ball in phases are always slow as the tight 5 are not hitting a ruck as they should.
The looseforward trio, although playing well and defending well as a unit, are very slow in getting to breakdowns thus most of the ball has already been slowed down or been lost.
In the previous matches, to take Juandré Kruger as an example and as I re-watched the matches again, where one is not all nervous as to who is going to win et cettera, it was interesting to see how little this player was doing, how many tackles he missed (7 in 2 matches) and also how poor his attention to what his job was at the broken play.
By the way, on 3 of the 7 missed tackles it was Lambie who had to make the cover tackle for the tackle missed by Juandré.
Now getting to the backline, who again are nowhere and this is where my biggest concern is and why I have this feeling Lambie is being set up to fail.
Firstly the players in the backline are not honed in to play an attacking running game as has been seen so far, and all one has to do is break up the backline into individuals.
Zane Kirchner, all be it he has been secure on defense and the high ball, is not even an integral part of the backline. He never joins the backline and he never runs running lines to create overlaps, he never hits the line at pace thus leaving the backline a man short whenever they attack.
Wings cannot be blamed here, as it comes not due to the lack of coaching and although JP Pietersen does do this, one hardly sees Francois Hougaard do anything besides defend, who by the way is very poor under the high balls.
Centre play is a huge problem and it matters not how many passes Lambie makes, but if the ball is not passed further that the No 12, no move will be successful, Jean de Villiers just does not pass.
I do not really want to lay blame at the feet of Juan de Jongh here, as even though he is known as a ball hog too. He had his first match and actually played well but never received the ball to be able to pass it to the next player.
Now to scrumhalf, where Ruan Pienaar also seems to be under some form of coaching and under instruction to play a kick-and-chase game or who knows what. Ruan, when he came on as a substitute in the English tour to South Africa series in June was in the situation that his service was snappy, yes he had faster service than Francois Hougaard and his option taking was good.
Suddenly Ruan is slow behind the srums and rucks and kicks 90% of possession away – and a kick one must remember is only as good as the chaser – and in the case of the past two Test matches it became an attacking weapon for our opponents against us.
Lambie is clearly very unsure as to his role and has looked out of place, something we don’t see when he plays for his provincial team, this also does not help towards flow in the backline.
There is also the problem of forwards in the backline and it is probably the biggest problem we have, as our forwards do not try attacking with off-loads and creative play, they all run to steam roller the defense in front of them, where they go to ground and ball is taken off them or slowed down.
I am sure if one looks more closely you would find more issues in our play, so how will one man in our team be able to make us a running rugby attacking team if it is not entreched in the whole team’s mindsets, and not an integral part of their style of play and drummed into them or being the style they play at their provinces?
This is the reason for saying Patrick Lambie is being set up, be it on purpose by the coaching staff or not, and to be very honest one can say the same for a few players in the Bok setup as one can’t see Juan de Jongh weave magic if he never gets the ball for example.
208 @ Pietman:
You think we will take it tomorrow?
Is there any rugby on tonight?
@ superBul:
Camt agree that Morne has even been a complete Flyhalf, and played his style way before he got to the Boks Super, when he replaced Ruan it was already then a complaint that he is standing to deep and at that stage his defense was not that good nor his attacking of the advantage line,
Dont get me wrong i have said it before and i will say it again, MOrne Steyn still has a lot to offer SA rugby,
The thing that made Morne better and able to play the kicking game he has was simple, he had the forward pack and he had a general named FDPreez,The Bulls however now do not have that same luxury, for example you had the worlds best Lock pair,Noone can ever argue with that.
212 @ Stormersboy:
No all tomorrow.
@ superBul:
@ Puma:
Bokke will come out fuming, I am sure!!! Last game after a long, hard season. We will take it, I am positive, just have to moer them in the scrums the first 20 or so.. @ Stormersboy:
Bokkerol rugby, that’s why were all here just hanging….
@ Stormersboy:
Hiyas M, yess there is but its Bath vs Shower, I mean Quins 😆
@ Sharks_forever:
I wonder if I can get it on VIP BOx
@ Pietman:
Have you tried VIP Box.TV? You can get a lot of streaming sport there. Need a reasonable connection, is the only thing
213 @ Sharks_forever:
Morne came around possibly when we had the best Bok team ever. Think of 2009 that was a brilliant Bok team. just have to think of, Juan Smith, Danie Rossouw, Bakkies, Victor, Schalk, Fourie de Preez, Frans Steyn, JPP, Habs, Beast, John, Jannie. He played with the best Bok team. Plenty of those played in the Bulls team that had the best lock pair and for sure the best scrumhalf. They are gone and it most definitely made a difference to his game.
Now here we are with a very young team. We need to build again. It does take time. If we do throw away our young and up coming youngsters we will never build a team like that again, which Jake built.
@ Sharks_forever:
I enjoyed Morne,s game , he dictated the play well and was reliable. My poor mans Carter. But OK he is not everyones favorite and i accept that. Lets see how we play the more open game and if it can suit the SA style. We discussed even that in depth. We must build that running culture from schooldays and need patience.
If we lose a few if we try the AB game i hope we have the patience to give it a long go, we must not fall from one style to the next
Puma wrote:
bull dust, why would you say that, show me the stats. We lost just as much.
Look how we degraded against the Wallabies, never mind the AB,s
@ Stormersboy:
Yes bru, I use vipbox often, there is also some Skye Sport site on internet.
But I get all the UK and European matches here on satellite, just don’t watch them that often anymore. I am a bit short of time right now, finishing of at work…..my kop staan nou Kaap toe! As ek afklim van daai vliegtuig, skiet ek en die vrou reguit Brackenfell se Spur toe en dan gaan ek een moosa spare rib opeet,varkvleis!!
215 @ Pietman:
I think we will too Piet. A little worried about Guthro as he never had a good game last week, then he is a class player and might have needed this game back with the Boks. Hope JPP is 100% with that groin. Their 11 is a big fella.
There is something I have given some thought to this tour. Meyer really likes a BIG player for inside centre. Now with Fransie injured I wonder if he had given any thought to playing Marcell Coetzee there? He is big, tackles like a demon and bloody fast, comes with excellent skills too. Marcell and Keegan had the best off-loads in the Super 15 out of any of the saffa players. Only thinking of him as he is a big fella and strong, much like Fransie. We then could have played JdV at outside centre where he played his best when England toured here in June. Still like it that we have Juan there just thinking how Meyer thought when he had Jaco there and it never worked. I think it would have worked well if we played Marcell at 12 and Jean at outside centre against the ABs, with Lambie at fh because of his tackling there more than anything else for that game. That is where we lost it against the ABs was them coming through our centre channel at will. I think Marcell could play there if he had too. Our defence then in our centre channel and the fh channel would have been brilliant for that game.
220 @ superBul:
Super how many did we lose in 2009? Morne started his first game against the BIL in the 2nd test at Loftus.
We beat the ABs three times that year and the Wallabies twice. We also beat the BIL twice. Had we played a full strength team in the last test we would have won that as well. So how many did the Boks lose in 2009 when Morne came around? NOT many. That had to be our best Bok Team ever in that year.
220 @ superBul:
2009 was our best year with the Boks when Morne came around Super. Go check for yourself.
Naand Moegoes, moepels, mopkoppe!
Is julle so moeg soos ek vanaand?
@ Puma:
2009 W8 lost 4
same team 2010 won 7 lost 6
and i reckon we had all the stars still there in 2011, won 5 lost 4
also remember most of our wins was not against the top tier nations
@ Puma:
Lekker!! Ribs are my favourite!
@ superBul:
Super for the Bulls style?? Morne was brilliant, and i agree we cant jump around in style, not sure if you read everything, but i had mentioned that we need to find the balamce between the running and kicking game, that is where we struggle right now i think.
Me personally thinks that MOrne’s game suffered a bit when he was kept out of the BUlls team in place of Derek Hougaard, and Morne had to work more and more on a kicking game, it was not that it was so wrong for the Bulls you have the pack etc to do that. and you probably had the perfect 9,for that style
27 Jun 2009 24 Reserve Britain Win: 28-25 2 conversions, 2 penalties Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria Blue Bulls
04 Jul 2009 24 Flyhalf Britain Lose: 9-28 3 penalties Ellispark, Johannesburg Blue Bulls
25 Jul 2009 25 Reserve New Zealand Win: 28-19 3 penalties Free State Stadium, Bloemfontein Blue Bulls
01 Aug 2009 25 Flyhalf New Zealand Win: 31-19 1 try, 1 conversion, 8 penalties Kingspark, Durban Blue Bulls
08 Aug 2009 25 Flyhalf Australia Win: 29-17 7 penalties, 1 dropgoal Newlands, Cape Town Blue Bulls
29 Aug 2009 25 Flyhalf Australia Win: 32-25 3 conversions, 2 penalties Subiaco Oval, Perth Blue Bulls
05 Sep 2009 25 Flyhalf Australia Lose: 6-21 1 penalty, 1 dropgoal Suncorp Stadium (Lang Park), Brisbane Blue Bulls
12 Sep 2009 25 Flyhalf New Zealand Win: 32-29 2 conversions, 2 penalties, 1 dropgoal Waikato Stadium, Hamilton Blue Bulls
13 Nov 2009 25 Flyhalf France Lose: 13-20 1 conversion, 1 penalty, 1 dropgoal Stade Municipal, Toulouse Blue Bulls
21 Nov 2009 25 Flyhalf Italy Win: 32-10 2 conversions, 2 penalties Stadio Friuli, Udine Blue Bulls
28 Nov 2009 25 Flyhalf Ireland Lose: 10-15 1 conversion, 1 dropgoal Croke Park, Dublin Blue Bulls
@ grootblousmile:
Naand se Rudi boetman, kom nou jy moet wakker wees, jy is nog a jongeling 😆
Sharks_forever wrote:
i might not have read EVERYTHING and remember one thing I agree with a lot you say, in my poor English i try and point out to you and Puma that Morne also had to play with the personnel you are complaining about, the same game plan too.
@ grootblousmile:
You been working??
@ grootblousmile:
Naand Oom Groot
226 @ superBul:
Super, You have missed the point, I was talking about when Morne came around, it was 2009 when Boks were playing their best rugby ever. Not talking about the following years after. That was the same Bok team that won the 2007 world cup, well almost the same. We had reached our peak after the Tri-Nations that year and started to come down from our peak come the eoyt. So when Morne came into the team he came into a practically world cup winning team. The best we had had since Malletts team of 1997/8. We have never reached that height again.
Now we need to build again and agree we need to stick to a style and move with it. I think only next year in the June tests. We need to work hard with our backs, try doing more off-loads. We play with all 15 players we could be the best for years. We have the players to play total rugby.
I want us to be the team again that beats the ABs on a regular basis and not once off or every 10 years beating them home and away. Want that every year. Like they do to us.
Okay going to watch tv now.
Hope we hang in there with the cricket.
Cheers everyone. Catch up tomorrow.
Go Bokke!
226 @ superBul:
We beat the best that year though Super. WE beat the BIL, the ABS and the Wallabies. It does not get better than that, beating those teams. We were very, very good that year. That is what I want our Boks to be doing all the time, beating the best.
Okay out of here now. Cheers boet.
230 @ Sharks_forever:
Hierdie “Jongeling” werk sy stingel stomp!
More-oggend gaan ek in die pisvelle bly lê en poep ruik tot die mense my met besemstokke beginne jaag… eish!
@ superBul:Part of them boet, Morne played long with Fourie, and Bakkies and Matfield and Fransie and percy and schalk, shit many other players Super,
I can name more,but the fact is though, Morne has been out of form, should he have been left out all together??? I for one believe not, Form is tempory, class is perminent
233 @ superBul:
Hellooooooo Bees!
232 @ Stormersboy:
Jinne, Jaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
@ grootblousmile:
😆 then you deserve some rest brother,
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