Rugby fans are funny things. Passionate and strong willed, opinionated and with a love of the game that is seldom matched by other sports in this country.
Brendon Nel – supersport
But while as a new South Africa we have tasted the highs and lows of international rugby, won World Cups and endured scandals that have made us look inward, increasingly there is a trend to be one-eyed and provincial in our outlook.
Last weekend while sitting in Durban, in the middle of the Bok test and while the Boks were winning, I couldn’t believe my twitter and Facebook timeline was still being flooded by people who were referring to the “Springbulls” and “Bulls v England”.
With little comprehension of what was going on, these same folk forgot that there were seven Sharks in the starting line-up, and no matter what provincial bias you prefer, it was the Green and Gold, the Springboks who were playing – not just for a coach, but for the pride of a nation.
Speak to any player and he will scoff at the thought of any provincialism within the camp. But look outside and every comment board, every forum is filled with vitriol of anger and hate at a supposed Bulls bias.
If my years in this business have taught me one thing, it is that nobody will ever be happy with a Springbok team. Whoever the coach, whatever his background, there will always be players regarded as the coach’s favourites.
There will always be players unlucky not to have made it. There will always be selections we don’t agree with.
This is not something new, and happens in all sports and to all countries across the world. Ask the New Zealand public whether they want Piri Weepu in the squad and you’ll probably hear a similar debate, even though All Black coach Steve Hansen sees a talented player who can add value to the squad.
Still, the one thing that should unite this country is the national team. Players do not pick themselves, and a coach is selected because he was the best candidate.
But unfortunately these past few weeks have seen a distorted picture of what people believe Heyneke Meyer wants for the Bok team. I’ve heard every theory on earth, and everyone seems to start with a Bulls bias.
I’ve known Meyer a long time, and he is only interested in one thing – winning. I once quizzed him on his Bok team several years ago when the Bulls had won their third Currie Cup, and was surprised that few Bulls would have made his starting line-up.
His match-22 selections have proven this in the past two weeks as more Sharks have been selected than any other team.
But then there are the stats. I’ve gone and delved into the past to see if there really is such a bias and if perhaps, as I’m sure I will be accused of being Bullish, I may be wrong.
Looking at team selections of Jake White and Peter de Villiers, the trend proves my point. Both previous coaches on average picked more Bulls players than Heyneke in their match 22.
Just look at the stats below, and you can see that this is the case, and a clear trend starts to come to the fore.
JAKE WHITE
26/05/2007 – England – BB = 8 KZN = 8 WP = 2
02/06/2007 – England – BB = 7 KZN = 8 WP = 2
16/06/2007 – Australia – BB = 7 KZN = 8 WP = 2
23/06/2007 – New Zealand – BB = 6 KZN = 8 WP = 2
07/07/2007 – Australia – BB = 6 KZN = 8 WP = 3
14/07/2007 – New Zealand – BB = 6 KZN = 7 WP = 5
09/09/2007 – Samoa – BB = 6 KZN = 8 WP = 2
14/09/2007 – England – BB = 7 KZN = 9 WP = 0
14/10/2007 – Argentina – BB = 6 KZN = 9 WP = 1
20/10/2007 – England – BB = 8 KZN = 8 WP = 1
PETER DE VILLIERS
05/06/2010 – Wales – BB = 5 KZN = 7 WP = 5
12/06/2010 – France – BB = 11 KZN = 3 WP = 7
10/07/2010 – New Zealand – BB = 10 KZN = 3 WP = 7
17/07/2010 – New Zealand – BB = 9 KZN = 3 WP = 7
24/07/2010 – Australia – BB – 12 KZN = 3 WP = 4
21/08/2010 – New Zealand – BB = 9 KZN = 3 WP = 7
28/08/2010 – Australia – BB = 8 KZN = 4 WP = 6
04/09/2010 – Australia – BB = 8 KZN = 4 WP = 7
27/11/2010 – England – BB = 8 KZN = 7 WP = 2
23/07/2011 – Australia – BB = 9 KZN = 8 WP = 2
30/07/2011 – NZ – BB = 8 KZN = 8 WP = 1
13/08/2011 – Australia – BB = 8 KZN = 6 WP = 4
20/08/2011 – NZ – BB = 8 KZN = 4 WP = 3
Heyneke chose seven Bulls in his match 22 in last week’s test and eight (through injury) this week for the Coca-Cola Park game.
In both cases he has hardly had more of a Bulls tinge than his predecessors.
But the argument may be made for more Stormers in the squad; and it is a valid one – there certainly were players who were unlucky and who will be there shortly.
What should be remembered, and Heyneke said it more than once this year, that he chose conservatively for the England series because he had little time to work with players.
Therefore, as he repeated, he was going with experience over talent, and would blend that talent in later on.
The bottom line in this argument, however, is pretty simple. This isn’t a Super Rugby or provincial franchise. These are the Springboks.
Yes, we all would love to have our own favourite players in the squad and yes there were definitely players who deserved to be there and aren’t, and others, in my opinion, who are lucky to have their places.
But Meyer has been entrusted with a role to play, to see his vision out of creating a winning team.
He has a very good track record and the imprints of his plan for domination could be seen from the second-half performance.
Surely we should give him a chance, and stop this nonsensical bleating on provincial grounds.
After all, it is Bok Friday, and my blood is green.
I, for one, won’t be blind to his faults, but I also don’t care what province a player is from.
These are the Springboks. They deserve our support.
Save the provincialism for the rest of the year. For now, only Green and Gold matter.
The continuing dragging out of this story really is becoming boring. I know the media have to find stories as this is their job, but please, for the love of Mickey, stop flogging this horse! People on the internet and social media freely express a lot of verbiage, the overwhelming majority of it not well thought out. To read something serious into it is just BS. It is very easy to stir people up, to stoke rivalries and to fan flames of prejudice and bias. As this article points out, people all over the world have disagreements over the picks for the national team but when that team is in action, the vast majority will support it in any case. Supporting the national team and having a different opinion than the coach are two completely different things and in the minds of the vast majority, perfectly compatible. It’s like saying if you are not happy that your child received 50% on an exam and you want her to do better and you urge her to try harder and to change some habits, that you don’t love her or support her if she doesn’t do as you want or hope.
And then the crux of this article that HM is not biased is so flawed. Firstly all coaches are biased and all people are biased. This is normal and natural. We have a preference for those we know and are familiar with. HM can “maak die Bulle almal Bokke” as long as they deliver and the team wins. Winning is the overriding factor. At this stage his tenure is just starting, so everyone and his dog has an opinion, and that is perfectly right and natural. With time, it will become clearer whose opinion is more valid. As for the worthless statistics quoted, in the time of JW’s tenure the Bulls were the strongest provincial team and so it makes sense that he had more Bulls and PdV mainly continued with the same group of players.
There aren’t major differences about player picks. About two thirds of the players would be certain picks for most experts and there are only a small number of players about whom there will be debates and then there will be more debate about the fringe and younger players. And in many positions it comes down to a simple choice between 2 players. The coach will obviously have his preference. And then guys, we have to remember that all the players are bloody good, even Spoes 🙂 We are talking here about slight differences between elite athletes which we couch potatoes enjoy magnifying by throwing around terms like “useless, crap and shyte”.
So to sum up, the Boks don’t deserve our support. If you are a citizen of a country it is only natural that you support your national team. When you don’t, there are usually other reasons, ie political, for it. When your national team is winning, the support tends to increase more, and when they lose the support tends to drop. Supporting a team cannot be forced on anyone, anymore than you can be forced to love someone. Most SA rugby fans will support the Boks through thick and thin. If the team doesn’t produce results the outcry against players and coach will grow and if they win, the reverse will happen. That’s how it works. We are just at the beginning of HM’s tenure with the first win under the belt and as long as he keeps moering the opposition, his opponents will have little ammunition and the number of his supporters will swell. In the meantime, journalist have to find stories to justify their jobs….
Whether it is perceived as just a story to justify someone’s job or not this is one of the kind of articles I was calling for last week instead of all the negativity towards the Boks in the build up to the first test.
@ Bullscot:
My point is that you shouldn’t be calling for specific kind of articles from the media. We live in a free society and the media are supposed to be free to say what they want. The main thing should be that everyone should have the same opportunity to have their voice heard even if and especially if, we don’t agree with it. The story about media negativity has been overhyped. Media goes for sensationalism nowadays and they milk it for all that it’s worth. It was very predictable that they would look for any story to attack HM’s team. Once he starts winning regularly these stories will fade away on their own. Your not agreeing with these stories is your right and you should express it, likewise they have the right to their opinions. You don’t have the right to censor anyone else’s opinion only to disagree with it.
This supposed story that most people are not supporting the Boks is also BS. The vast majority of rugby supporters are supporting the Boks. On other sites and in other articles Saffers are accused of being arrogant for expecting and demanding the Boks to thrash England. Every poll has a big majority predicting a Bok win, so how can there be these two conflicting situations. There are just a small percentage against the Boks and the overwhelming majority in support, but these few voices are being given more prominence. By the way you can use terms like “Springbulls and Bullebokke” and still support the Boks to win, you know 😉
Just stop trying to tell people what to think. Show them that what they are thinking is wrong by demonstrating it on the field and you will convince most and shut up your detractors. You would never be able to convince everyone but that would be their loss not yours.
Let me just add that this controversy was so predictable. The first thing that happens when a teams is announced, the media breaks it down by provincial teams. That is the most normal and expected thing. In this case Bulls players overwhelmingly dominated and Stormers players were hardly represented. With the Stormers just having beaten the Bulls and leading the log, the outcry was so predictable and natural. For anyone to be shocked and surprised and expect otherwise, they must be from another planet. The only way for HM to quieten these criticisms would be to address it as he has done by explaining his reasons and then, more importantly, demonstrating it on the field. If other players excel and are clearly better than his original choice or his first pick loses form, will he drop them or persist with them? Will he go with the clearly better player or stick with his original pick. This HM can only demonstrate over time on the field. Deeds will silence his critics, not words. While he is winning, he can maintain that his original pick was better. How will he react when he loses or his player plays poorly? Will he still stick with the Bulls player?
3@ The_Young_Turk:
Not sure where the idea of censorship came from, that is not at all what am suggesting, just as you point out exercising the ‘right’ to express an opinion and perhaps the world ‘calling’ is what misleads but still stands that at a time when there were lots of negative things being said thought it would be a good thing to ‘balance’ that out with actually trying to support the team especially in the close build up to test matches. As you say there is so much support out there, then there should be no problem with trying to get those voices of support to come out as well, rather than so much negativety that was put out there.
4: Niemand behoort te ontken dat die beste spelers gekies moet word nie, maar wie bepaal wie is ‘clearly the better player’ ? Is daar enige voorbeelde wat tans gebruik kan word ?
This argument has raged ever since national teams have been selected. It probably has gotten worse since the advent of the information age, and you will find fringe supporters voicing their opinions, making this whole provincialism thing seem worse. Unfortunately even the really avid rugby supporter, will always show provincial bias. We all want our provincial heroes to get the nod. When they don’t we pull out the provincialism card. Fact.
Since Kitch coached the Lions to the ’95 WC, every coach has chosen the players he believes will play his game plan. And sometimes the coach may not even pick the best player in his position because he knows what that player brings in terms of team dynamics and partnerships, and when having to replace said player because of injury etc, the coach will look to pick a player that will closely match the characteristics of the injured player. This player may not be perceived as the best replacement. It is something we have to live with, and as unbiased supporters we have to have support the coach and the team. Simple. I may not be so unbiased when the Lions are winnig games again and they have few players chosen for the Bokke-:)
4: “How will he react when he loses or his player plays poorly? Will he still stick with the Bulls player?”
Al die Bokke, gee nie om van watter provinsie nie, is nou HM se players, dit is nou almal ‘his players’ nie net die Bulle spelers nie, as die mense van die suide dit net in hul klein koppies gaan kry gaan hul hopelik weer rugby kan begin ondersteun. JDV verstaan dit, hopelik kan sy mense volg.
Wat het AC gedoen toe hulle verloor het teen die Saders, sommer almal gedrop ? Nee, sy vertroue in sy span gestel en van toe af wen hul weer heeltyd.
Hoekom moet HM, as ons verloor, nou al wat ‘n speler drop, as JDV een slegte mis tackle het, moet hy nou gedrop word, of is dit net Bulle spelers wat gedrop moet word as hul foute maak en nie volmaakte rugby kan speel nie ?
Hou op allerlei voorwaardes, slaggate en eise aan HM stel, en ondersteun die Bokke, ongeag watter spelers hy kies.
Bokke !
7: well said, Queen of the Jungle ! 😉
So terwyl ons gesels, hoekom het die IRB besluit om die uitspeel wedstryde op ‘n Sondag in SA te speel ? Dit is in die verlede probeer, en het nie goed gewerk nie, hulle kon mos vanaand gespeel het, soos laasweek ?
9: ek praat nou van die 0/20 wêreldbeker rugby.
eish, maar ek moet erken, as HM vir Rose en Luke kies vir die bokspan, dan gaan ek sukkel om die bokke te ondersteun !
Maar geluk rig die Boswell Wilkie Circus nie meer die bokke af nie, so die kanse is min dat dit gaan gebeur !
Hellooooooooooooooooooo!
I am officially GBS Relaximus!
Flew to Slaapstad on Thursday morning, landed at 12:10, rented a little Ford Figo and headed for Gordon’s Bay, where Handbriekie and myself met up with Pietman and Pietvrou…. from there over Sir Lowrie’s Pass and to Grabouw, where of course the lovely Elgin Valley surronds the place.
Turned off to the right and down the road past the Apple and Pear plantations…. en all the way to Kicker’s place!
Had a lovely lunch with Kickers and Beanie, drank some of their wine… and had a good ols visit…. and of course a visit to his cellerssssss.
Then we were off, Pietman & Pietvrou in one car, us in the Figo…. and off to Gansbaai….
Past Arabella Golf Estate, past Hawston, past Hermanus…. or shall I rather say all the way through Hermanus (big farking town)… through Gansbaai, quick piepie at the Gansbaai Saloon… and off to Kleinbaai, past Jagse Jurie Japie’s place…. and into Kleinbaai… and booked into Vad Dyk street 9… right at the Kleinbaai Harbour.
Anyway, Pietman has just arrived again…. tonight we braai!
@ bdb:
Ai oh bidibi, as usual you miss my point or you’re just being contrarian towards me as usual 🙂
How does one decide whether a player is the best in his position? Take the time to think about it before you put words in my mouth. What did I suggest? If the coach is winning, he will be regarded as right! If the team is losing, his picks will come under pressure. I don’t what you are disagreeing with and why you are throwing in AC and the Stormers as if that supports your argument. Any and every coach faces the same pressures. Win and you are celebrated, lose and you are reviled. From your great “kenner” knowledge what other method do you have or suggest to distinguish how we will decide who is the better player?
Also you clearly didn’t read or you weren’t interested to understand what I was saying, just interested in tearing down who you feel is your opponent even when they are not disagreeing with you. But you expect other people to react differently towards you. Maybe if you show some understanding towards others it will be reciprocated.
YT, ek het gelees wat jy geskryf het, maar mag seker van jou verskil, so moet dit nie persoonlik vat as ek met jou verskil nie, ou maat !
Ek maak maar ‘n grap oor die kenner storie, ek weet nie veel van rugby nie, net baie lief en passievol daaroor. Vat of los dit, ek gee my opinie.
Ek skeur jou daarom nie uitmekaar nie, ek verskil van jou, al stel ek dit partykeer bietjie sterk sodat jy mooi kan verstaan. Moenie so sensitief en gespanne wees nie jong, dit is nog ‘n klompie weke voor die Stormers choke in die super 15 semi’s. 😉
Nou fokus ons op die Bokke.
O ja, oor hoe ons die beste spelers bepaal: dit gaan oor baie baie baie meer as bloot wie ons ondersteuners dink die ‘beste’ is en in die span behoort te wees. Sekere spelers troon uit, dalk 3 of 4 in die span, die meeste ander is gelyk met baie ander ‘beste’ spelers buite die span. ‘n Mens moet die regte kombinasies en team players kry, wat mekaar kan opbou en aanvul, en soos gesê, daar gaan verskille wees oor wie die ‘beste vir die job’ is.
Onthou, baie spanne moes eers verloor voor hul kampioenspanne word, met dieselfde spelers, dink aan die Bulle van einde 90’s begin 2000, so ook die Reds, en vandag al meer die Stormers wat begin lyk na moontlike kampioene hierdie jaar …. kan nie glo ek het dit gesê nie, ai wat word van hierdie wêreld ?
Ek hou ook nogal van tennis ook, maar elke nr.1 (bv. Novak) moes vir jare lank eers tussen nr.2-606 rondkuier, voordat alles gekliek het na laasjaar en hierdie jaar se sukses.
So wen/verloor is nie die enigste maatstaf vir wie is die ‘beste spelers’ nie, vra vir Churchill hoeveel verkiesings moes hy eers verloor voor hy eerste minister geword het.
YT, as ek jou nog steeds nie verstaan nie, skryf jou hoofargument in 3 sinne, dan probeer ons weer. As dit ook nie werk nie, stuur ‘n prentjie !
12@ grootblousmile:
Hello GBS lucky man enjoy your time away good you been able to catch up with Pietman and JFK etc, lekker braai onthou matigheid voor oe
HM kan, as alle beserings weg is, die volgende 4 lostrios kies wat almal nie die bokspan sal teleurstel nie:
Marcel Alberts Spies
Burger Kolisi Keegan
Brussow JP Vermeulen
CJ Dewald Strauss
Nie een kombinasie sal teleurstel nie, dit gaan oor die regte kombinasie, en wat HM soek.
Ek glo die kombinasie wat hy soek vir die toekoms is:
Burger
Alberts
Spies
Met back up vir die toekoms:
Marcel
JP/Kolisi
Vermeulen
@ bdb:
Ek terg jou ook maar net, soos jy met my doen. Ek vat dit nie persoonlik nie.
Let me try to put it another way because maybe the failure was mine in expressing myself.
There is the world as it is and there is the world as we would like it to be. I was trying to point out the world as it is and how it operates in practice. In reality no one is going to agree with the coach’s picks – fact. No use moaning and crying tears about it and wishing it were not so and saying don’t do it, “just support the Bokke and the team”. My point was just that that is not reality. How do you shut these people up? Only if the team is winning – reality. In professional sport, you are judged on your results. The SA rugby coach is expected to win every match – reality. Patience for bad results is extremely short – reality. Your talking about the players needing time etc. may be perfectly valid, but that is not how things work and not only in SA. If HM is not going to win regularly, he is going face heavy criticism – reality. No use wishing it were not so. You guys are acting like SA rugby coaches have never had a difficult time. It is well known that all our coaches have had a hell of a time. Why do you expect HM to be different. Just because you agree with him doesn’t mean that others will. You quite freely criticised other coaches when the shoe was on the other foot. Imagine AC had been appointed coach and had picked 13 Stormers in the team. There would have been many on here going hysterical – probably you among them.
So to cut it short. Understand where the other person is coming from. You don’t have to agree, but understand and expect that they will disagree and don’t act so shocked and affronted. If the coach is winning he will receive the support of most. If his team is losing pressure, will be put on him and his picks – reality. Deal with it. The people that supported him from the beginning will be more prepared to give him time, the people who are not happy with his picks now will feel vindicated. It’s a tough job, but that’s why he is earning the big bucks. He could have refused the job you know. He didn’t have to take it.
17: ek kan verstaan en saamgaan met wat jy hier verduidelik, maar dit klink vir my anders as wat jy in #4 hierbo gesê het, veral die laaste paar sinne. Maar kom ons los dit daar en geniet die rugby, soos daar altyd druk en bias vir en teen die bokafrigter gaan wees, so gaan daar heeltyd verskil van opinie tussen ons wees, dit is ook deel van die rugby lewe. Anders sou dit maar ‘n vervelige spul wees.
Users Online
Total 67 users including 0 member, 67 guests, 0 bot online
Most users ever online were 3735, on 31 August 2022 @ 6:23 pm
No Counter as from 31 October 2009: 41,908,160 Page Impressions
_