Sanzar CEO Greg Peters has admitted that “disparities between penalties” remain a concern as the first season of conference style Super Rugby moves into the home stretch.
In an extensive and exclusive interview withrugby365.com, Peters admitted they have some way to go towards achieving their goal of “more consistency” in the entire judicial process.
Unhappiness amongst fans over the length of bans and the conspiracy theorists abound since the introduction of Super Rugby, but the establishment of an ‘independent’ Sanzar office in the last year had brought hope of more even-handed treatment across all three countries — South Africa, New Zealand and Australia.
South Africans penalised more severely
However, a series of recent cases again raised the suspicion that judicial officers in New Zealand and Australia dish out far more severe punishments to South African players than for their Australasian counterparts.
This was highlighted in the lengthy ban handed down by Kiwi Nick Davidson to Lions flank Michael Rhodes — effectively a two-month ban. At the same hearing Davidson let Highlanders wing Siale Piutau off scot free, despite a flurry of punches to the head of Rhodes.
Even more worrying is that two South African judicial officers — Jannie Lubbe and Peter Ingwersen — handed out two-week bans to Waratahs lock Kane Douglas and Sharks loose forward Jean Deysel respectively.
All three players (Rhodes, Douglas and Deysel) were cited, and faced hearings, for the same offence — under Law 10.4 (e): dangerous tackling of a player above the shoulders and around the neck.
Peters, although unwilling to address specific incidents, admitted there is reason for concern over disparities.
“It would be fair to say we are not happy yet with the disparities between penalties for what is ostensibly the same offences,” Peters told rugby365.com.
“We have to bear in mind that we are not in the room when the judicial officers hear the evidence,” he said, adding: “There are a number of factors that always have to be taken into consideration in imposing a penalty on a player for an offence.
“However, it still appears that there are inconsistencies between the three territories from time to time, which we want to work to iron out and it will require some time … it won’t happen overnight.”
Too many cooks spoil the broth
Peters felt that the more people you have involved in a process, the more subjectivity you’ve got.
“What we are trying to look for is more consistent subjectivity… which is difficult.
“There is also a possibility that we will have a look at the system, on whether that is supporting the people involved and make sure they do the best job they can.”
Peters said those are all the sorts of things they are hoping to iron out when they have a post-season review.
“It is not good for the fans,” the Sanzar boss said, adding: “It is also not good for perceptions that one country is being treated more harshly than others.
“It doesn’t help us to focus on what is actually important, which is the rugby and the spectacle that is in the middle of the ground.”
Peters said there is “regular dialogue” with both citing commissioners and judicial officers.
He said the Sanzar judicial committee — Lex Mpati of South Africa, who is the chairman, Mick Mathers from Australia and Mike Ewan from New Zealand, and Peters meet regularly to review citing commissioners’ reports.
“One of us will often have a conversation with the judicial officers or citing commissioners in a country to get consistency and to try and improve the consistency,” he told rugby365.com.
“Each weekend the citing commissioners review the weekend on a teleconference call and Lyndon Bray, the Sanar games manager, sits in on that call to give a referees perspective on what he has seen over a weekend.
“It is done retrospectively, but it is trying to get than consistency and alignment between what the referees see and what citing commissioners cite and then obviously take it to the next level… penalty consistency at judicial hearings.”
trips
nice article
but
shouldnt it have been :judicial officers nail sa players”?
..
anyway
glad to see that someone is coming out and agree with what we’ve been saying for some time
i do think that the solution is quite simple though … if they nail us, we nail them!! yes, i know its rediculous
but
it would get everyone to work towards a solution much sooner!!
anyway … lunch …
“There are a number of factors that always have to be taken into consideration in imposing a penalty on a player for an offence.
However, it still appears that there are inconsistencies…”
Ek dink die dude moet liewer vir die Bush admin in Amerika gaan werk. Of vir die Pentagon se PR kantoor.
Bla bla bla! Dit klink vir my meer of hy besig is om homself te oortuig as iemand anders.
GBS, Biltongbek, Morne, Trippels, BDB!!!!!!!!!
I WOULD LIKE TO MAKE AN HONEST REQUEST! CAN WE PLEASE DO SOME RESEARCH ON ALL THE BANNES DISHED OUT THIS YEAR, AND THEM COMPARE THEIR LENGTHS AND THE LAWS WICH WERE SUPPOSE TO GOVERN THEM!!!
GBS Ek weet so rukkie gelede het jy sekere bans vegelyk. Ek dink aan iets soortgelyk. What says you? Dalk kan ons dit uitkry na ander rugby sites.
Cause why this Sh*t is f*ck*d up.
3@ Greenpoint-Gunner:
Gunner… go ahead, do the research for us, mail it to me… I’ll publish it and give you full credit!
gbs @ 4
and while you’re at it … throw in my name too!! 😀
Greenpoint gunner, here are some I found.
21 February Ma’a Nonu banned for one week- tackle around the neck.
“His second yellow, and consequent red card, came when he shoulder-charged Highlanders’ scrumhalf Jimmy Cowan and caught his New Zealand team mate in the neck after 50 minutes. He was later cited for the dangerous tackle.”
15 March James Kamana from the Lions gets three week ban for tip tackle
“”The hearing found Kamana guilty on the charge of a dangerous tackle under Law 10.4 (j) that relates to lifting an opponent into the air and dropping him into the ground, commonly referred to as a ‘tip’ tackle,” a statement afterward said”
10 May Keegan Daniel banned for two weeks regarding dangerous tackle.
“Daniel had been cited for a late and dangerous tackle on Brumbies centre Christian Lealiifano during a Super Rugby match in Durban last Saturday.. ”
31 May Jean Deysel gets two week ban for dangerous tackle
“Deysel was cited for a dangerous tackle on Waratahs centre Tom Carter during a Super Rugby match last Saturday. He received a yellow card for the offence.
SANZAR Judicial Officer Peter Ingwersen SC found Deysel guilty of contravening Foul Play Law 10.4 (e) for dangerous tackling of an opponent without the ball.
The Judicial Officer concluded that this was a lower end offence and ruled that Deysel receive the minimum sanction of two weeks”
6 May Ita Vaea gets one week ban for dangerous tackle
“Brumbies number eight Ita Vaea has been suspended for one week after being found guilty of foul play by a SANZAR Judicial Hearing held in Brisbane on Sunday morning.
Vaea was cited under Law 10.4 (e) for a dangerous tackle on Reds wing Digby Ioane in the 48th minute of a Super Rugby match at the Suncorp Stadium on Saturday. Ioane was forced to leave the field following the incident.
SANZAR Judicial Officer, Paul Tully suspened Vaea from all rugby for one week up to and including Sunday 12 June 2011”
6 April Kane Douglas gets two week ban for dangerous tackle
“Waratahs lock Kane Douglas has been suspended for two weeks and no further action will be taken against his team-mate Pat O’Connorafter both players appeared at SANZAR Judicial Hearings in Pretoria on Saturday.
Douglas pleaded guilty after being cited for a dangerous tackle on Bulls centre Wynand Olivier during a Super Rugby match in Pretoria on Friday evening.
SANZAR Judicial Officer, Jannie Lubbe SC catergorised the incident at low entry level and after considering aggravating and mitigating factors suspended Douglas from all rugby until 17 June 2011.”
31 May, Michael Rhodes gets six week ban for neck lock
“Rhodes was found guilty of contravening Law 10.4 (e) relating to the dangerous tackling of a player without the ball and was suspended for six weeks.
The SANZAR Judicial Officer ruled that Rhodes had flipped Piutau over in a dangerous manner “placing his head and neck at serious risk of injury”. Davidson added that video evidence showed Piutau in a highly compromised and dangerous position.
Davidson ruled that in order for Rhodes’ suspension to be effective it should encompass six matches and he is therefore ruled out of all rugby up to and including 31 July 2011″
31 May Sial Piutau gets away scot free for boxing.
“Piutau was found guilty of breaching foul play Law 10.4 (a) relating to punching but has not been sanctioned due to the “exceptional circumstances” of the incident.
The SANZAR Judicial Officer ruled that whilst the player admitted to foul play he had been “seriously compromised” in the incident involving Rhodes.
The Judicial Officer concluded Piutau’s reaction was that of someone who had been “seriously endangered”. He added that to impose a sanction in these circumstances “would not reflect the effect on Piutau of the incident and a reaction that was the product of shock rather than retaliatory intent”.
5@ Ashley:
After this weekend we will write ABOUT you… something like: Depondent Stormer supporter jumps off roof – falls on his head AGAIN!
In the Article the Interview will go something like this:
Interviewer: “Ashley, did you break anything?”
Ashley: “No there were just a few rocks on the ground, and the people actually did not mind me breaking some of them.”
from cricinfo
…
Ponting-proof sanitary padding for men and other inventive products cricketers have been clamouring for
R Rajkumar – June 9, 2011
With all the fuss being made about whether the DRS should stay or go, or how prominent a role Hot Spot* should play in our grey, monochromatic lives, it’s time to take a look at a few other technological innovations that have made the wishlists of players and fans alike in recent times.
1. Call-hold for fielders miked-up live to commentators
The message most requested by fielders has been a variation of the following: “Thank you for calling me in the middle of the game. Your call is important to me. I apologise that due to the fact that I am currently running backwards under the ball in the hopes of, oh, I don’t know, maybe catching it, I am unable to answer your call. Here at the King’s XI Punjab, we value your remarkable persistence. Your call has moved two places up the order in which it was received, even if at the expense of our position in the league having fallen four.
2. New, improved Shane Warne replicas
After the success of the delightful, almost life-like android built by a Chinese cybernetics corporation (Japanese cybernetics corporations are so passé) to approximate the looks and bowling of Shane Warne in this year’s IPL, emerging Twenty20 leagues the world over are scrambling to order one. “Sure, the synthetic skin has some issues: the colour tone is perhaps a shade too orange, and the plastic-to-imitation-human-tissue ratio a little too high to pass off as even reasonably human, but the rare legbreak the machine produces is alone worth the price,” said Lalit Modi, the new commissioner of the IPL – the Icelandic Premier League.
3. Ponting-proof sanitary padding for hands
Interestingly, a request made by the players’ associations of all Test-playing nations bar Australia. The proposed napkin will protect cringing opposition players in post-match handshake situations from germs collected in Ponting’s hands from his repeated spitting into them while fielding. “We’ve had so many requests for it over the years,” said a spokesman for Always, the company most likely to start producing the hand pads, “but we didn’t believe the market was as huge as it is until our VP shook the man’s hand once and was bedridden for weeks.
“As a humanitarian gesture, we are now ready to rush into production a discreet, easy-to-carry product. You can dive for catches, sprint between wickets, or gambol playfully with your team-mate as you both go in for that missed catch. Heck, go horse-riding in slow motion if you must. You won’t know it’s on you, and neither will Ponting. When the time comes, just take the pad out of your pocket, peel the protective strip away and slap it onto your hands before having to touch him,” he advised, before turning away with an involuntary shudder.
4. No Mo Ultra Slo Mo
Another request, but this time for the banning of an existing technology, with the Society for the Preservation of Deceptive Elegance in Batsmanship coming out strongly against the use of Ultra Slow Motion cameras. “Until these cameras came along, not many people, least of all the paying public, knew just how much the bat actually turns in our hands once the ball has hit it,” said Michael Clarke on condition of anonymity. “It makes us look like such amateurs. Girly amateurs,” he seethed.
Geoffrey Boycott, another member of the hitherto secret society, which has apparently been around since the very inception of the game, concurred. “Batsmen like to think they have strong hands. I have strong hands. Honestly, I do. You have to believe me. Please? But seeing the bat turn as much as it does in these replays compromises the illusion of apparent artistry our kind have taken centuries to build. I know because I’ve been around for most of them.”
“The videos are a little disturbing,” confided Wanda B Hemingway, self-professed cricket historian and author of the book Where Have All the Moustaches Gone? “It’s sort of like the first time you heard Mike Tyson speak. Disturbing.” Meanwhile, Herschelle Gibbs has thus far been the only batsman to come out and, well, bat for the cameras. “One word: cheerleaders,” was all he had to say when asked for comment.
gbs @ 7
😆
9@ Ashley:
Hoekom swem daai 2 Stormers supporters in die modder agter die Bulls Bakkie?
Weddenskap verloor?
gbs @ 10
moetie k*k pratie, lol
het jy al ñ stormers ondersteuner met só ñ hoed gesien? 😆
11@ Ashley:
Ja… Oom Tas
Die Ou man mettie groot hoed, sy gesig is op daai groen bottel mettie oortjie!
GBS stap kroeg binne met ‘n volstruis onder die een arm en en ‘n toiletbak vol R100 note onder die ander.
Die kroegman vra :”En die?
GBS: ” My pa het gesê as jy “girls” soek, moet jy ‘n groot voël en ‘n kakhuis vol geld hê.
Al die diere in die woud het bymekaar gekom om ‘n nuwe koning te kies. Almal is daar, leeu, olifant, renoster …. hulle wag net vir jou, ou bobbejaan om my comment klaar te lees.
Vraag: Definisie van n laatlam?
Antwoord: Uit de oude doos.
15@ Ashley:
My jonger broer was ‘n Laatlammetjie…
… Ons beskryf hom as ‘n oorstoot drie in beseringstyd!
gbs @ 12
huh-uh … ons ken hom nie,
maar dit klink of julle groot maters is!! 😀
Die koei is ‘n wonderlike ding….of so iets
Die volgende is glo in ‘n opstel kwytgeraak deur ‘n leerling van ‘n skool naby Vryheid.
“Die koei is ‘n soogdier. Hy is ook ‘n huisdier. ‘n koei is orrals. ‘n Koei het ‘n baie fein reik – jy reik hom oor die jele plaas. Agteran die koei sitdie stert. An die een kant vannie stert sit die pint van die stert wat die kwas genoem word en an die anner kant sit die koei.
Die koei gebruik die kwas om die flieje van haar weg te hou anners val hulle innie melk. Voran die koei sit die kop. Daar groei die hoorings. Die kop hou ook die bek vas. Tissen die stert en die kop sit die koei. Die koei is oorgetrek met ‘n beesvel.
Onderan die koei hang die melk. om die melk te kry maak jy die koei se bene vas. Die agterstes. Dan sit jy onner die koei entrek die toutjies. Dan kom die melk.
As die gras goed is, is die melk goed. As die gras sleg is, is die melk sleg. As die donner weer in die lug is, is die melk weg. As dit ‘n ou koei is, is die melk suur.
Dit is baie goedkoop om ‘n koei aan te hou want jy gee hom net een keer kos dan kou hy twee maal. Die man van die koei is die os. Dit lyk soos die koei maar daar hang net nie melk aan hom nie. Om os te sê is nie ‘n vloekwoord nie.
Verder weet ek niks. Behalwe dat as ‘n koei baie stip na jou kyk moet jy padgee want dan is dit ‘n bul.”
17@ Ashley:
Gaan kyk moooooi, hy is daar in jou local dop-shop, tussen Malmsey en Vaaljapie, net onder Overmeer…. hehehe
gbs @ 16
arme ou!
gbs @ 19
nee hel, ek was verkeerd!! julle is selfs groter maters as wat ek gedink het!! … jy weet selfs waar die ou bly, lol
gbs @ 12
o, daaaaaaaaaaaai ou!!
..
huh-uh, hom nog nooit gesien nie!! 😀
21@ Ashley:
Ek ken hom woes goed ja, ek het kloooomp Stormers Ondersteuners verdedig innie hof na hulle hom gaan haal het daar by die Pienk Olifant dop shop, en toe te veel met hom gesels het, elke fortnight… innie Suid-Kaap!
gbs @ 23
lol. nee, noggie aan hom gesuiwe nie 😀
@ Ashley:
Ash…then we introduce subjectivity if we do that (your first post). I think the judicial officers should be French and English, then it will be fair….but the sentences would probably on balance be longer/higher as they do play a softer game there.
If you’re going to have a hangover, you might as well have the good stuff….Virginia wine, cheaper by the gallon. The guy who lived a Smitswinkelbaai in the Peninsula reserve was also the honorary parks board officer, but for a gallon of Virginia you could dive out as many kreef as you wanted as long as your brought 2 to him, een vir hom en een vir die Tannie…goeie dae. He would even share a bit of the Virginia with you, then the walk back up to the road…was somtyds baie moeilik.
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