OK, now that we all have been very negative and taken out the canes to castigate Peter de Villiers from every angle, let’s look at the realities.
In effect there is ONLY ONE real controvertial selection, playing Zane Kirchner at Outside Center (No 13).
What would you have done given the injury situation?
The rest of the selections is rather forced on him, Deon Stegmann in for an injured Schalk Burger is understandable!
Regarding the Inside Centre (No 12) conundrum, with injuries making it necessary to bracket Patrick Lambie at No 12 (should Jean de Villiers not pass fitness), this is a choice we HAVE TO live with!
If faced with the same scenario, what would you have done and who would you have selected, you would possibly also have chosen accordingly or made different selections which was subject to massive critisism.
At Scrumhalf where Ruan Pienaar has been selected over Francois Hougaard, well Ruan is regularly playing in Ireland now and knows the conditions and type of rugby played there, so his inclusion is understandable and although I do not agree with the specific choice, I can live with it for now…. I understand the reasoning behind the selection.
The Root cause of our current problem in selection lies in the EXTRAORDINALLY BAD planning and selection of the actual initial squad choices… at Inside center, Right wing and Fullback.
The coach and selectors knew Wynand Olivier and Jaque Fourie was out injured, knew also that Francois Steyn was only available after this game, and knew at the time of announcing the Touring Squad (Just after the Currie Cup Final) that Jean de Villiers and Juan de Jongh had injury niggles. At worst they knew the next day, Sunday… and should have made proper provision for a specialist Inside centre and specialist Outside Center.
Not trusting Adi Jacobs for a starting position says 1 thing and one thing only and that is that he should not have toured, in his place another No 13 should have been taken….. but who? Same applies to a No 12, a specialist but who?
At Inside Center (No 12) they could possiblyhave included Andries Strauss, but based on 2 or 3 good defensive showings in total, not likely, I would have taken Meyer Bosman rather… constant performer at the Cheetahs.
At Outside Center (No 13) the cupboard is rather bare, not much happening at the Blue Bulls (Jaco Pretorius), Cheetahs (Robert Ebersohn), Sharks (Stefan Terblanche), WP (their 2 Springbok No 13′s are injured), Lions (Waylon Murray). Had I been the coach / selector this week you would surely have shouted at me too and ridiculed me for my choice of No 13, due to the lack of quality I would have played Lwazi Mvovo out of position at No 13 (shuddering at the thought of playing a player out of position), also a huge gamble.
What concerns me most is the type of game plan we will have for Saturday, we cannot afford to go behind on the score board to the Irish , like we did time after time against the All Blacks and Wallabies and expect to come back into the game, not in the Northern Hemisphere, not on their turf!
We have to play possession rugby!
We have to dominate the breakdown areas and have our loose forwards and hooker and play TOWARDS and OVER the ball!
Our defence needs to be spot on!
We have to win this game!
Come on, be wise… let it rip here.
Let’s see your wisdom!
Gbs,
Really don’t think PdV should have selected Zane to play outside centre. Will he even pass? Also Basson is a 11 not a 14. We had centres at home so why play players out of position? What about Waylon Murray? He has played really well this CC for the Lions. Strauss in at inside centre. Would have felt better with those two there. Or Basson if you wish. No matter that Ruan is playing in Ireland think Hougaard is our best scrummie at the moment and HE should have started no question. No problems with Stegmann he will do fine but do feel for Keegan after playing the best rugby of his life this CC. Think he will get a chance sometime on this tour.
Lambie has a great temperment and played really well at FH, but really not sure if he should have been thrown in at 12 for this game. Thought the youngsters would all get a chance of coming on for 20min in some of the games on tour. That is the best way to bring in the youngsters into test rugby.
I may have started with Alberts too at 8 instead of Spies on the soft wet fields in Ireland.
Think we will lose this one against Ireland.
Looking at the team -only three sharks and bulls in the key positions- it is clear we aare going to kick and achase and pod. We are going to play the territory game; that is why Pienaar is in the team for his tactical kicking. Stegman is i the help with the pods and to play his heart out for 45-55 minutes, spoiling, slowing down and stealing opposition ball.
W can not play towards the ball and over the ball with players who have never really played like that so we are going to 100man rugby yet again.
The team and PdV wants to win at all costs and they are taking the safe road namely playing the way the have been playing when they won the WC and in 2009.
The thinking is probably we need to win this one and then we’ll try the expansive stuff in the other test.
Looking at the bench I have a feeling that the stilll have the expansive game as a back-up for the last 20 minutes if we are way behind or way ahead.
Last 20 minutes will see Daniel, CJ, Hougaard, Jacobs and Flip on and we’l probably see Pienaar moving to 10 and we will then try and play the faster keep possesion and blow-over game.
@ grootblousmile:
Its good to see some sense at last taking a calm look at things, have read lots of folk really getting stuck in a criticising from all angles. This is not the time for that as far as I’m concerned the team has been anounced now we, any true fan, support it, any stone throwing can happen after the game if needed, BUT I’m quietly confident that we will win, then what will all the doomsayers out there have to say.
Is Alberts injured? It would seem the general consensus out there is they would have chosen him instead of Spies. This is a big turn around for you GBS to suggest Mvovo at centre, you hate players out of position??? Habana may have been a better bet than Mvovo, its at centre he made a name for himself before he turned into a wing, if he can bring his strong tackling that he had the last two years he was at the Bulls with would be good. Also noticed in the final he was tending to get quite close to the action coming in off the wing a lot behind the rucks and mauls, which got me wondering if he would be playing at centre in future, especially with the emergence of the younger guns at wing? I agree with Pienaar at scrumhalf, am a big fan of his, saw his first game for Ulster and although then you could see he was a bit rusty he still, to me, looked a class above the rest of the players on display. Don’t you think he is more similar to du Preez than Hougaard so may fit into the pattern of play better, strong pass, good boot, attacks the space at times, and as you say will be quite familiar with the conditions now, can bring Hougaard on later in the game to run hard at the tiring Irish and create havoc from the base of the scrums.
4@ Bullscot:
You are right, I shudder when a player is played out of position… and always will.
But what are the alternatives here… Habana is a defensive liability on wing (or has been for the most part of the International season this year), so moving him to center is a no-no… Mvovo has played at No 13, is big, strong, defends well, runs hard…. in fact he would make an excellent No 13 long term in my opinion.
But it remains a gamble…
Adi is a No 13, but has hardly played this year and I think he is a has-been.
4@ Bullscot:
There is a worry about Alberts yes, injury to an ankle or something.
I would also have chosen Alberts over Spies, if he was not injured.
@ grootblousmile:
Ahh that explains it a bit, know you like Mvovo, didn’t know that he had played at 13, but have seen Habana star there in the past and can’t forget how well he followed those high kicks up and tackled hard a few seasons ago, so if he can get the hunger back he is capable, maybe he is getting bored at being under utilized at wing lately and so drifts in and off his position to get more involved.
i would of played
9-hougaard
10-steyn
11-mvovo
12- lambie
13-habana
14-basson
15-aplon/kirchner
It’s easy to say I would have chosen this or that… but one has to recognise Snorrie’s dillemma, even though the dillemma was self-induced not having taken proper cover on tour.
as jou beste senters beseer is kies jy die 2e beste een as hy beseer is kies jy die derde beste een so as jy daai pad loop dan lyk dit so 1 mossie 2 jdj 3 eberson 4 murry 5 oupa 6 corne uys en so gaan jy aan hel dis darrem nou nie kern fisika nie maar hoe gaan kies jy n spesialis heelagter en dan nie eers n baie goeie een nie en speel hom senter,dit se net vir my dat daar dalk meer poletiek as logika betrokke is
@ grootblousmile:
“Self induced” is exactly the point.
Am I the only person who has never thought much about Kirchner’s defence?
Is he being asked to play centre for his defence!!
I am astounded!!
I hate it when they play players out of position – I mean, they should have left Spies at wing!
@ Durban Bulle:8 – Durban, That is a far, far better backline. Play Zane at FB and Aplon at 14. Why could PdV not see that?
Basson has been outstanding this CC but he his a 11. Though have a feeling he could do well.
@ tight head:11 – Feel the exact as you TH.
@ Durban Bulle:
I like your selection, it is defensively more sound. Habana on center is less ricky than Zane.
@ Puma:
My point is simply this Puma:
We have to beat Ireland.
In this midfield crisis if you want a centre to mostly be able to defend against one of the most experienced combos in world rugby, then pick your best defensive option.
We have just witnessed last Saturday, probably the best defensive centre display in years!!
If we are in the shit and need a defender rather pick him!!
@ tight head:16 – TH, Agree totally about our defence in last Saturdays game. Said so many times here and on keo why the heck did Strauss not get selected when we had a centre problem with injuries? Crazy I tell you. Bloggers just saying he is just CC level, that is rubbish, playing WP was like a S14 side.
Will we beat Ireland? I am having my doubts. Hoping like crazy we do though.
Also pleased Lambie is on tour but think he should have been brought in for the Scotland game and only the last 20min or 30min and at FH. He has a good temperment so hoping this game on Saturday if we lose does not bring his confidence down.
People people people…….why are you so worried? we all know what a good centre Matfield is!!!!! 🙂
@ Tripples:18 – 😆
JdV will start at inside centre. Alberts place on the bench will be taken by Keegan. Alberts still not over his calf strain. Pity about Alberts would have had him instead of Spies playing.
Lambie on the bench. Pleased about that. Rather bring in the youngster for 20min. Much better for him at this level to be eased in slowly.
Ok alle grappies op ‘n stokkie………
I would just like to state catagorically that……
Div took awesome players fresh out of the S14 and stuffed them up in the Tri-Nations!!!
He has now taken quite a bit of young blood, awesome youngsters fresh as well as seniors from the CC, is already playing them out of position and he is going to stuff them up!!!!!!
Dink ons gaan more bid vir pouse!!!! 🙁
Though JdV was not that great last week against the Sharks. Would have had Strauss on this tour.
Back later. Don’t think anyone is logged on here.
habana started with the lions at centre and actually that is the position he made his name in early patrt of his career….and mvovo is damn hot at the moment.
See JdV back in. Why oh why not play him at 13 and bump Zane?
exactly jdv and habana at centre will be a gr8 pair..we might just win the match that way…but think we going to get a hding in the backline…our forwards will be over them…
@ Puma: @17
Hey Puma why do you think Lambie shouldn’t face Ireland but ready for Scotland? Do you think he needs a bit of rest after his exploits last weekend or are you taking a swipe at Scotland? Last time we played the Irish it was Scotland who won, last time we played the Aussies we beat them, what did Ireland do? Also take into consideration our fine winning tour to Argentina at the end of last season.
Here is my 2 cents.
Div should have done better player management. Instead of resting players like Adi Jacons (who barely played but who has a Bok contract) he should have asked for Juan de Jongh to be rested. The sam aplies to someone like Guthro Steenkamp.
But that is way in the past, and nothing can be done about it.
I say, focus on three things when picking a Bok team. Position familiarity, form, combos (experience with team mate).
In OTHER words, list your top 7 players in the country in each position, and work down the list. Jean is out, Steyn. Unavailable, Olivier, unavailable, Juan de Jongh, Bosman, if not, what about Doppies le Grange (ran a couple of S14 teams simpel this year).
Right wing. Pietersen, out, Aplon ok in.
FB. Kichner, not on form. Jantjies…? Ludik?
Lets say that Bismarck is one of the top hookers in the world (which he is). Just because one member of your squad is top in the world, doesn’t mean everyone has to be. It just means that in the squad you should have the nr. 1&2 best AVAILABLE in your country.
SO he got player management throughout the year wrong, and he got squad selection wrong.
THEN what do you do? Well, look abroad. What is wrong with Marius Joubert? He has played more games against Brian than anyone in the backline, bar maybe Jean.
If you want to be a stuck up prick, well then I suppose you have to take what is coming your way.
To get back to combos. Ruan over Hougaard???
I hope Adi starts next week next to Jean, with Aplon on the right wing and FS at FB. That would be a GREAT improvement.
@ McLook:
KEEEEN observation
@ Bullscot:26 – Bullscot, Cause playing Scotland will be easier .. LOL.
Tell you what I had 4 of my Scottish mates visiting me in 2002 and told them we would thrash em. Boks lost 24/6 I think. Think that was the score. So you can imagine those Scots with their humour..hehehe. Have never lived that one down.
This time round think we will beat Scotland and England. Not sure about Ireland or even Wales, we could be beaten by those teams. Hoping not though.
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