We could not reach consensus on certain positions.
Lets debate it further and pick again in the blank positions.
Team of Week 6
15.
14. Gerhard vd Heever
13. Jacque Fourie
12.
11. Bryan Habana
10. Morne Steyn
9. Fourie du Preez
8. D. Vermuelen
7.
6. Schalk Burger
5. Victor Matfield
4. Anton van Zyl
3. Brok Harris
2.
1.
I accidentally deleted this thread but here is what i retrieved.
Submitted on 2010/03/22 at 10:54pm
Ek was ongelukig met Jaco Peyper se blaas van die Waratahs wen. Ek het tydens die wedstryd gemoan dat hy die Waratahs gehelp het. Nie veel support gekry nie en toe nog opgemerk dat julle dies nou mede bloggers dit in die pers sou sien. Nou ja hiers dit. Deel een
SPIRO ZAVOS
March 23, 2010
The Force, too, lifted their game at home. Only contentious refereeing decisions by the inexperienced South African Jaco Peyper saved the Waratahs from a deserved defeat. After being correctly strong about defenders releasing the tackled player for most of the match, Peyper allowed Phil Waugh, on his own try line and at the end of the match, to snaffle two turnovers before the tackled player had been given time to release the ball.
Submitted on 2010/03/22 at 10:56pm
Deel 2- Match report on
sarugby.net
South African referee Jaco Peyper was not the most popular man in Perth on Saturday as the Waratahs beat the Force 14-10 in their Super 14 match played at the ME Bank Stadium.
Peyper was loudly booed at the end of a game in which a number of crucial decisions went against the Force and cost them their first victory of the season.
And a win was there for the taking for Nathan Sharpe’s men – referee or no referee.
The Western Australians might have felt aggrieved at the rulings that went against them but when they study the video it will be abundantly clear that they spoilt a great chance of knocking off their arch-rivals from Sydney by making too many errors and failing to take their chances.
The result left the Waratahs as the front-running Australian side with the Force earning their first bonus point of the season.
In a typically tense derby atmosphere an error-strewn match did not say much for the standard of Aussie rugby as the sides scored a single try apiece – the prolific Drew Mitchell getting the first for the Waratahs as he chased down a neat grubber by Daniel Halangahu and Scott Staniforth crossing the white line for the Force after intercepting a pass by Berrick Barnes.
Barnes had a most unhappy outing with the boot as well; having kicks charged down and being so off-key with his place-kicks that he had to be replaced by Halangahu.
The Force led 10-8 at the break – the first time they had managed to be at top at this juncture in five outings – but succumbed to two penalties in the second period as the Waratahs took advantage of their superior possession and field position.
Referee Peyper incurred the ire of the local crowd after a series of rulings made against the Force while they were hard on attack.
He had pulled them up, for not placing the ball, on the 17th phase right under the Waratahs posts in the first half and in the second half he twice penalised tighthead prop Tim Fairbrother for failing to bind properly when the Force were in the red zone and massing to score.
A series of scrum re-sets from the 75th minute, which obviously didn’t worry the Tahs at all, got the crowd going and from a Force perspective it got even worse when in the last minute Sharpe was pinned for not releasing the ball right on the Tahs’ line, even though it seemed the Waratahs were guilty of not letting go of him, and then again when Halangahu failed to find touch and presented the home-side with one last chance.
A number of Force men won their personal duels with the elite Waratahs – none more so than Matt Hodgson up against Phil Waugh – but the win which would have been a marvellous boost ahead of their next match against the high-riding Bulls was not to be.
Loosehead
Submitted on 2010/03/22 at 11:33pm
15. Danniler
14. Shadow
13. Fourie
12. Bosman
11. Habs
10. Morne
9. FDP
8. D. Vermuelen
7. Smith
6. BURGER
5. Bekker
4. Van Zyl
3. Brok Harris
2. Tiaan
1. Wiaan
Sorry folks but those who keep picking WO who does not pass must be mental and belongs in the front row with Bismark and Jannie.
I picked Gio at 15 and 14 simply because no other 15 or 14 cut the mustard this weekend, and Aplon played excellently on attack and defense in both positions. Everyone’s fascination with Van den Heever is beyond me, the guy can’t tackle a tackling bag if it’s standing on it’s own.
As for the Canes being a different side than the one who faced the Bulls? Please, just because the Bulls’ strategy was flawed, why is it automatically assumed that the Canes gave them a harder time than they did the Cheetahs and the Stormers?
They played us a sea-level, which they prefer, they had a full-strength team, including Cory Jane for a while.
The Bulls just assumed they would roll over, and then they didn’t. The Bulls missing tackles and scrumming like children is hardly the Canes playing better. If the Bulls approached the game seriously it would have been a whipping!
Oh, and why exactly is Morne Steyn at 10? I cannot remember one positive thing about his play over the weekend, and I watched the game 3 times, both he and Du Preez had their worst game of the season. Focus people, this is a week by week team, loyalty doesn’t come into it.
I agree with Loosehead about WO though. What a chump.
Been sick as a dog for a week.
So let me just fill in the blanks:
15. Patrick Lambie
12. Wynand Olivier
7. Francois Louw
2. Gary Botha (Bismarck missed too many line-outs and went dead with the ball too often to pip Gary – but he was much better (Bismarck) last week and had his best game of the year).
1. John Smit.
Still not well then Morne…
That is why I forgive you your choices.
I would agree in principle with Lambie, but WO?
Tim Whitehead was superb, not only for a guy in his first match, but he showed up a number of more experienced players.
The rest of your choices I can live with, good point on Bismarck
Whitehead was okay, but superb is putting it a bit strongly.
He had one clean line break the whole game.
Wynand’s work rate and tackle count much higher.
#36
Can’t fault a guy if the tackles have been made before coming into his channel. I rather rate him on his distribution, something Olivier hasn’t heard of yet.
I may be wrong, but the sign of a good inside centre is the form of those outside of him. Yes, Jacque Fourie is usually good, no matter who plays inside him, but on Saturday he was put into space a few times, and if my statistics didn’t fail me…Olivier missed 3 tackles and Whitehead none.
And for that matter, Wynand had NO linebreaks.
Oi…. hello to the blinkered mob and hello to Morné!
No matter how anyone tries to sell Olivier, he will never be the No. 1 SA inside centre, he simply isn’t creative enough. Those outside of him are always starved for possession.
In a test, structures are not as loose and player friendly as in Super 14, there you need someone with that special something. Jean de Villiers had it, I am almost certain Robert Ebersohn might also have some of it, Olivier has none.
GBS
I might be a bit pro-Stormers, but I try to always remain objective, but that is the problem, if a Stormer palyer is doing well, and a Shark commends him for it, no problem, but if I, as a Stormer Supporter do it…I get crucified.
BTW…I didn’t sledge your team in that article, if you read it carefully, I said they are the best, but only when they play the type of rugby, that they invented.
#5
Daar is net een of twee verskille in ons spanne sien ek…
40@ Saint – You bias against Meisiekind Olivier is suspect to say the least, it is bordering on hate.
Tim Whitehead did well considering he had his first Super 14 game and I suppose you guys were so worried beforehand that you amplify his “OK” into “Fantastic”. Fact is Wynand has a sub-par ouside centre next to him as opposed to Jaque Fourie in the Stormers Team.
Eishhhh, why do I bother….
41@ Saint – Tel weer, hierdie keer op die goeie ou boeremanier… of op jou vingers, indien nodig!
Dammit, we quietly raced past 80 000 comments…. and are now sitting on 80 123 already…
Well done, well done!
Goooooooooooi Mieliessssssssssss!
Saint,
Understand when I pick one player above the other it does not mean the one not picked was utter shit.
Whitehead, like Bismarck was in fact very good on the weekend.
I just look at total contributions given by players, which includes distribution, line-breaks, tackles, cleans, rucks entered, play off the ball, work rate, etc.
I would however suggest you re-look at Wynand and your creativity statement.
Simply consider how many tries were scored by Bulls outside backs in the first 6 weeks, and how many by other teams…
45@ Morne – One should also consider who the opponents were against which a player played, Wynand had Ma’a Nonu opposite him… and Conrad Smith… that is as tough as it gets…
Wynand’s work-rate on and off the ball is amazing.
PS! I hope you are over your flu!
#42
Ek tel party van jou tweede keuse spelers ook, ek bedoel as jy hulle op nommer 2 het, beteken dit jy het hulle steeds gerate. Dan is dit basies net ‘n verskil van opinies…hehehe
Meisiekind Olivier is ‘n wannabe…net soos wat Derick Hougaardt was, die hele land se bulle het oor die klein stront ook so aangegaan. Daai tyd was ek ‘n voorstander van Morne Steyn, toe het Tacitus my nog op Keo vertel watse groot moroon ek is, nou is hy Steyn se grootste cheerleader.
Mense maak baie die fout om te dink ek weet nie waarvan ek praat nie, maar check bietjie my SA Showdown artikels, dis scary hoe akkuraat ek met almal was…
47@ Saint – Wat dink jy van Doppies Le Grange in die sukkel-sukkel Leeus?
47@ Saint – Dis seker goed om te verskil, sou boring gewees het om net heeltyd saam te stem.
Komende naweek is daar niemand van die Stormers in die R-T span nie… ek weet dit sal vreeslik wees vir jou, maar nouja…. hehehehe
Dan gaan jy weer daai R-T span van jou laai met soveel Tjarks, Cheetahs en Lions as moontlik…. jou simpel ding!
#45
A number of those tries came from the 4th or 5th phase, and others from broken play, like Van den Heever’s great try, it was Du Preez, then Pakslae, then Shadow got it.
Give me your honest opinion…and don’t say who else? Is Wynand Olivier good enough to run in Jean de Villiers’ place in the Bok team?
Wynand has a lot of defending to do, with Morne Steyn being a suspect defender, I give him that, he does amazingly well insofar as the amount of work he gets through during a game. But if that is the argument, then Doppies le Grange is also a Springbok candidate…he is probably the hardest working 12 in the country by a country mile.
#49
Nope, verkeerd, ek dink die Bulls is die sterkste span in Suid Afrika, huidiglik. Ek dink net nie WO is die beste senter in SA nie.
En Morne is bietjie shaky as die verdediging kwaai is, maar hy bly my eerste keuse op losskakel. Anyway, jy kan my nie anti-bulls noem nie, almal dink al klaar ek is anti-Lions, nou-nou noem iemand my ‘n rugby rassis.
Ek hoop rerig die Bulls wen al 4 games oorsee, en ek hoop my span doen dieselfde, want ek het alreeds my vliegkaartjie vir die Bulls / Stormers game op Nuweland…en ek kan nie wag nie.
Whitehead was number 2 in the 12 stakes in my view.
For a guy that has played consistently good rugby for over 2 years now, calling him a wannebe is a bit strong…
I was never a fan of Wynand under Jake White, but he has certainly stepped up to the plate in the last 24 to 30 months
#52
I respect that, as I respect what WO has done for the Bulls. I am not hailing Whitehead as the next Springbok no. 12, in fact, I have no idea who that is going to be, PDV will probably give it to Jacobs again.
I need to see Grant at 12, how he connects with Jacque Fourie, but then again, Jean will be back for the Tri-Nations.
Is Wynand ‘good’ enough to step into Jean’s shoes?
Absolutely.
And how does a ball get from 1st to 5th phase?
By skipping the 12 all the time?
Wynand is the top 12 in SA at the moment, and one of the leading ones in the whole competition.
52@ Morne – I’ve asked this before but have had very limited response.. what would you think about the Bulls using Jacques-Louis Potgieter as inside centre and moving Wynand out to outside centre.
Bulls have a bit of a constant problem on outside centre with Dippenaar or Jaco Pretorius there…
J-L Potgieter is strong and defensively solid enough… and attackminded enough for an inside centre, not true?
#54
I cannot argue that, because I know that you know your rugby better than most. I will then only have to agree to disagree. Super 14 yes, Testrugby…he hasn’t impressed yet.
Hey GBS,
Is Wynand really a strike runner though?
I believe your 13 needs to be a strike runner and Wynand to me is more of a distributor, creator, not a strike runner.
I also think you will lose a lot with Wynand’s organisational skills in the backline if you shift him to the outside backs.
#57
Jacque Fourie organizes defence from 13 at the Stormers. I think leaving Potgieter next to Steyn will create a gap in the defence. At the moment, Olivier is covering 2 channels.
57@ Morne – I hear what you say about organisational skills… that makes sense and I agree, but the problem that I have is that Dippenaar and Jaco Pretorius are even less effective as strike runners… and I somehow trust J-L Potgieter more than most people would, in fact I think after Morné Steyn, J-L Potgieter is SA’s 2nd best flyhalf.
58@ Saint – I do not share your notion that Morné Steyn is weak on defence, he puts the tackles in, no doubt in my mind.
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