After the last Test of the Springbok End of Year Tour I found it necessary to get into contact with Professor Tim Noakes, SA’s leading Sports Scientist and also a blogger on this web site, raising the issues of player fatigue and knowing that he has been shouting and warning from the rooftops that SA Players will suffer burnout if not managed properly. Maybe it is best if I share the full sequence of the discussions with you lot nosy muppits….

Well here it is… and I warn you, this is for the devoted reader and true rugby lover….

FIRST MAIL:

Tim,
 
One could see the tired bodies and the emotional tiredness on the faces of some Springboks this Saturday, most notably that of Victor Matlield, his expression said it all.
 
What was perplexing however, was that the other 2 major Southern Hemisphere Teams, the All Blacks and the Wallabies, probably had their respective best games of the season on Saturday… no signs of fatigue at all.
 
I can understand the Australian situation, they do not have a domestic competition which rivals the Currie Cup, so play less games in general than South Africans.
 
The New Zealand situation is vastly different though, they have their strong domestic competitions as well and most All Blacks must have played in a similar amount of games compared to the Springboks.
 
Could it be that the Springboks are mentally somehow more fatigued or not properly mentally led by qualified personnel within the Bokke setup… or is it mostly a physical fatigue factor.
 
Kindly explain to me why there is such a marked difference, if you would, by means of a return mail…. I will then put an Article up with the relevant questions and your explanations…
 
Come on, I’m pushing the soap box right in front of your nose now, time to preach to the masses and to the children (SARU) and the unconverted (Unions)… hahaha.
 
Regards,
 
GBS
(Rugby-Talk)

 

REPLY:

Dear GBS,

The Ausssies and the Kiwi train smarter in my view.  We still have the mentality (in the Provinces) that you have to stuff up the players at every opportunity and that this is how they will develop the discipline to win.   All the rest of the world realizes that matches are excellent training so that once you start playing matches you need to focus on rest and recovery.  The Bok coaching staff know this and rest the players and train the Boks very little when they are in charge of the Boks.

I attach an article I sent to the Cape Times yesterday.  I am not sure if they are going to use it.  You are welcome to use it AS SOON AS THE CAPE TIMES HAVE MADE A DECISION ON IT.  Perhaps you can be in touch with the Cape Times editorial staff to see what they want to do.  I doubt they will publish the article in its entirety but you are welcome to do so.

My major point remains that (i) the consequences of the tour will be felt in 2010 and 2011; (ii) what happened on the tour had been predicted by myself and the Springbok fitness trainer (amongst many others at the Institute involved in monitoring the players) and (iii) the focus of the end of year tour has to change completely so that it is a positive and not a negative for SA rugby.  We have to develop a credible reserve team of upcoming players who can beat the Six Nations teams.  Jake White would be able to do that and there must be other SA coaches who are up to the task.  But unless the team plays together during the year (as I suggest in the article) they will not be able to play to their potential.

Best wishes,

Tim

 

ARTICLE:

In his article “European tour was a complete failure on the scoreboard, but top Boks were physically shot” published on Monday November 30th, Peter Bills ask if “there is anyone in the Springbok squad and party who can see the wood for the trees?”   He concludes that the Springbok players on the recent European tour were “shot, gone, completely finished”.  As a result “everyone was going through the motions.  Neither their hearts nor their bodies were in it from the start”.  Nor it might be added their brains since it is the brain which drives the body (or chooses not to do so when the body is exhausted).

At a press conference organized in Johannesburg on November 4th by Discovery Health, the commercial sponsors of the Springbok medical support team, I presented evidence to explain why 13 Springboks should not be touring Europe in November 2009.  The evidence related not so much to the certainty that the majority of those Springboks would play poorly on the tour – that was sufficiently predictable that it required no intelligent debate – but rather to the long term consequences of this ill-considered decision.

Since 8 (including Pierre Spies) of those 13 players are from the Blue Bulls, that team will be the first to suffer the fallout from the recent European tour.  For those 7 (excluding Spies whose injury will mercifully insure that he is properly rested before the 2010 season) now require an extended period of rest, preferably 8 weeks if next year they are again to do justice to their proven abilities.

But as a direct result of the European tour, those players will only be properly rested if they miss the start of the 2010 Super 15 tournament.   Their absence from those games will impact on the probability that the Blue Bulls will successfully defend their Super 14 crown.  Alternatively should those players begin training too soon so that they play in the first games of that tournament, they will be insufficiently rested; they will carry their fatigue into the 2010 season; all will under-perform at some time next year and some or all will be injured.   The end result will be that unless either the Sharks or the Stormers can fill the gap vacated by a wounded Bulls team, no South African team will dominant the 2010 Super 15 as did the Bulls this year.  The immediate consequence will be that the Springboks will also not be as dominant in the 2010 Tri-Nations as they were this year since psychological dominance over the New Zealand teams during the Super 14 is an important determinant of Springbok success in the Tri-Nations.   This lost dominance will have to be regained by 2011 if South Africa is to win the 2011 Rugby World Cup.   But that task has now been made more difficult and a positive outcome in 2011 has become less likely as a result.

The Bulls need to learn from the Stormers who were taught a hard lesson when they failed to rest four Springboks at the end of the 2008 season.  In the 2008 season those 4 players accumulated 7937 minutes of match play; in 2009 they could manage a meagre 2830 minutes between them – a 64 % reduction in the return on the investment made in them by the Stormers, Western Province and SA Rugby.  One of those players Conrad Jantjies played almost no top-level rugby in 2009 after clocking 2176 minutes in 2009.   It is my opinion that if each of the leading Blue Bull players who accumulated more than 1800 minutes of match play this year is not rested properly before the 2009 season, some will suffer the same fate as did the Stormers’ Springboks in 2009.

The group of Bulls players includes Pierre Spies (2068 minutes – now injured),  Morne Steyn (2018 minutes),  Zane Kirchner (1961 minutes),  Odwa Ndungane (1906 minutes),  Guthro Steenkamp (1844 minutes – also injured),  Fourie du Preez (1835 minutes).  Victor Matfield who had accumulated 1695 minutes before the European tour, who played two additional test matches on the Tour and the game against the Barbarians and who was clearly the Springbok most affected by end-of-season fatigue, will also finish the season with more than 1800 minutes of match play.   In the past 7 seasons Bakkies Botha has not been able to stay injury-free the following season if he played more than 1350 minutes in the previous season.  Prior to the European tour he had already accumulated 1454 minutes.  Thus his back injury on the tour was a predictable “accident” waiting to happen.

Other Springboks who accumulated more than 1800 minutes of match play in 2009 and who are therefore also in need of urgent, long-term rest are Bismarck du Plessis (2422 minutes – probably an all-time Springbok record),  John Smit (2081 minutes),  Tendai Mtawarira (1913 minutes) and Heinrich Brussouw (1718 minutes).  Their totals do not include the additional minutes they accumulated in the 3 most recent European tests.

Although I do not believe that the underperformance of key players was the most critical consequence of the recent European Tour, I fully agree with Peter Bills’ considered opinions.  It is profoundly disturbing still to read the opinions of those experts who believe that a Springbok rugby player never tires, regardless of what he is forced to endure.  As a result these fundis conclude that factors other than fatigue must explain the poor Springbok performances on the European tour. Unfortunately as Bills writes, this is also the publicly expressed opinion of the Springbok rugby captain.

But none of these experts has offered an alternate explanation of how almost all the players in a team that was so dominant just 4 months ago in the Tri-Nations, can quite suddenly be afflicted by a shared disease of profound under-performance.  The only logical explanation must be that those Springboks, who include some of the world’s best players in their respective positions, suddenly wilfully chose to play poorly.  But no world-class athlete ever reaches a position of such eminence if he entertains such thoughts.  This explanation is just stupid.

The reality is that if the Springboks were playing in the world’s most professional football codes – the National Football (gridiron) League in the United States or the Australian (Rules) Football League – their physical underperformance during these recent test matches would have been measured to the nearest Watt, centimetre or meter per second.   Then there would have been no debate about the extent of their recent physical decline.  The absence of proper measurement prevents the exposure of this truth.

The reason why there is no such measurement is also clear.  Some must believe that it is not in their interests if the real extent of this physical exhaustion were to be established and more widely known.  For then the tired players would have to be properly rested and managed and those who failed to act in the players’ interests might be legally accountable.  Instead we avoid the measurement and so suffer the predictable consequences.

Still other experts argue that on their recent European tours, the Wallabies and All Blacks did not appear as tired as the Springboks.  This apparently proves that our players have no reason to be tired; instead the spectre of Springbok fatigue must be a convenient excuse for those players’ wilful choice to under-perform.   But this conclusion ignores two inconvenient facts.

First, the Wallabies are contractually required to rest for 63 consecutive days each year.  During that period their employers, the Australian Rugby Union, can make no demands on its contracted players.  If the Springboks had a similar contract they would certainly have less excuse to be tired.

Second the New Zealand players especially those from the Pacific Islands, do not train as do South African rugby players.  Rather they focus on explosive training of high intensity and short duration with an almost complete absence of endurance running.  It is my opinion that for those players this form of training undertaken is less exhausting over the course of the season than is the typical training to which South African rugby players are exposed.   Indeed current Springbok conditioning coach, Neels Liebell, is on record as saying that when he finally has control of the Springboks’ training especially on the end-of-the-year tours, he finds that the players are so exhausted that he must focus on rest and recuperation  so that they are able to achieve at least some level of performance on the field.

If the Springboks are indeed more tired than they should be on the basis of the minutes of match play they accumulate each season, then the cause will be found in inappropriately demanding training programs with inadequate attention to recovery during the Super 14 and Currie Cup competitions.

Finally a solution must be found for this end-of-year tour debacle if South African rugby is to move to the next level of achievement.  The intellectual solution to the problem is relatively simple.  Either a decision must be made to exclude from the Currie Cup, all uninjured Springboks who have accumulated significant game time in the Super 14, Tri-Nations and incoming Tours.  During this period they need to be ordered home to spend time with their families.   Or alternatively only those Springboks who have played less than a certain number of minutes of match play each year, different for each player, should be considered for the end-of-year-tour.   Springboks who wish to or are needed on the tour will have to be removed from the Currie Cup regardless of all other considerations.

The leading South African players who are not regular Springboks need to form a team under the best available coach and train together for as long as possible between the end of the Super 14 and the start of the Currie Cup.  Properly prepared for European playing conditions and knowledgeable of their opposition, there is no reason why, under a world-class coach, such a team would not be able to outperform a group of tired Springboks on an end-of-year tour.  Given this responsibility, the team would flourish and finally prove that South Africa does indeed have the depth of rugby talent that is so frequently claimed.

The inexplicable paradox is that those who manage South African rugby have proven that they are deeply committed to making this country the world’s leading rugby nation.  But they seem unable to comprehend the magnitude of the damage that the end-of-year tours inflict on that ambition.

Sooner or later a creative solution has to be found to this self-inflicted problem.  Continuing with the current approach simply makes no sense. 

I thank Justin Durandt and Professor Mike Lambert of the High Performance Centre of the Sports Science Institute of South Africa for the data on Springbok playing times.

Professor Tim Noakes,
University of Cape Town and Sports Science Institute of South Africa, Newlands.

 

SECOND MAIL:

Tim,
 
Thank you very much for the response and Article, I will contact the Editorial Staff at the Cape Times just now and hear what they say.
 
I see that Mike Lambert and Justin Durandt was copied in to your reply to me. May I use this opportunity to make my acquaintances here with these gentlemen and say that our Rugby web site, www.rugby-talk.com
  is a supporter-driven SA Rugby web site, no journalistic bull is sold there, we love and discuss rugby… and when the rugby chatter is exhausted, we just have fun. Kindly visit the site, register there and add your voices to the voice of Tim Noakes, myself and the real supporters out there.
 
Tim, I’m one of the converted as far as your viewpoints are concerned… and certainly share your sentiments regarding the way the Unions train or overtrain the players. It is not the first time that I hear the argument about how differently the Kiwi’s train on the practise field and I now understand the significant difference in the End of Year Tour results.
 
To my mind however, there were other contributing factors too which negatively impacted on the Tour results, some of the major factors being:

  • Match squad selection for the 2 midweek games (apart from those selected to go on tour who should never have gone or been chosen) was strange, the use of combinations totally neglected! By this I mean that they employed front rows who had never played with the man next to him and / or behind him in the scrums, the loose forwards were not selected with the proper balance required between a FETCHER at openside, a GRAFTER / TACKLER at blindside and a HANDS OF GOLD STRIKE RUNNER at No 8. In the midweek backline, the halfback pairings had never played together before, neither the centres and the back 3 were from 3 differing Unions as well. In other words, cohesion was neglected.
  • The UNDERVALUE placed on scrumming by Gary Gold, who argues that because there is only about 10 scrums per game with your own throw-in into the scrum. What this view neglects is that 10 bad scrums affect ALL PHASES directly thereafter, where suddenly the pressure on ball possession increases, the opposing loosies and backline are in a more favourable position to turn ball over or slow ball down, which again impacts on the phases thereafter. In addition we gave away at least 6 – 12 points in penalties resulting from “Bad scrummaging”…. and that is the difference between winning and losing. We saw WP and the Stormers struggle and have the now renowned “LIGHT FIVE” reputation when Gary Gold was the forwards coach there… and now we see that the Bokke suddenly have lapsed too and are fielding a so-called “LIGHT FIVE”. Face it, our forwards are’nt feared world wide anymore!
  • The lack of a PLAN B  and executing PLAN B during game time.
  • Playing players out of position and or continuing with the John Smit at TIGHT HEAD experiment, till BJ Botha was finally brought in, injury enforced. This does not only apply to John Smit though, it also spills over to a guy like Andries Bekker who is a typical No 5 lock (in the Victor Matfield mould) and not an enforcer No 4 lock, so to have two typical No 5’s as locks just do not cut it in a game.
  • Players not taken on TOUR… in this regard I want to refer to red-hot players like Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen, WP Nel, Sarel Pretorius (scrummie), Lionel Mapoe…. the list goes on. In stead, players way out of form (Gurthro Steenkamp, Chiliboy, Ryan Kankowski, Adi Jacobs) and other players who did not merit inclusion in the first place (Davon Raubenheimer, Bandise Maku). If Second Tier strenght is to be developed or “DEPTH” developed, then certainly there are better ways of achieving this…. like making an “EMERGING BOKKE” team and having them play regularly in a year, go on tour and develop as proper backup.

Anyway, one can probably write a book on the contributing factors alone… and opinions differ… I realise that.
 
Enjoy your day, gentlemen!
 
Regards,
 
GBS
Rugby-Talk

 

REPLY:

Dear GBS,

I agree fully.  We should not fall foul of trying to reduce everything to one simple explanation.  

There is clearly an absence of proper planning and forward thinking.  

These coaches would simply not survive in a really competitive environment like the NFL.  So the problem in SA rugby remains – lack of a really competitive coaching structure that produces world-class coaches who do 99% of things correct all the time – not just ocassionally.  Something has to happen to the end of year tour.  It is a profoundly destructive tour.

Tim

155 Responses to Tim Noakes and GBS debates… interesting stuff!!

  • 91

    @ 77 Lion4ever

    When you talk about player rotation, are you referring to rotation of players during a game or for a game? If you are referring to the first option, NFL or gridiron is made up of set pieces, and substitution does not interrupt the flow of the game or momentum built up by a team. They substitute players to suit a specific set piece. (btw, I am no expert on NFL, but have seen a few American Football movies 🙂 ). If you are referring to the latter, for sure a very plausible option. But then why not send a proper coached 2nd string team on the EOYT? IMO a rotation system for every other international we play will have a negative impact on building combinations and the cohesion of the team.

  • 92

    IMHO there are way too many entities and stakeholders in this pie. Everyone is ready to fight for their slice and some pushing their political agendas.

    @ 68 Morne Just like you say, there is for sure a vacancy for a DOR. He also needs to be given the authority necessary to implement sound structures in SA Rugby. DOR needs to take us forward, that is in the right direction.

  • 93

    @89 – Hernandez is a poor fly-half, and a good fullback. Hernandez goes for drop goals and up-and-unders when he doesn’t know what to do. Headless chicken that guy. He attempted like 38 drop goals in the world cup and maybe landed 3 of them… Great fly-half who drop goals away all the position. The NH sides in the world cup was so poor, it’s a travesty that the All Blacks and Wallabies fell out in the quarter-finals.

  • 94

    GBS I totally agree with you on the point that a bad scrum affects everything thereafter, mental and physical domination, and everything thereafter when the scummy passes the ball. Because we only have 10 scrums in a game we should focus on other areas more where it matters, bullshit. What about the oppositions scrum and when it’s their put in. Not only will a dominating scrum give us good quality ball, but dominating the scrum when it’s their ball will result in bad ball most of the time and we can so much better impede there effort to execute their move. I think Gary Gold needs to catch a wakeup.

  • 95

    Why do you think our eightmen got caught behind the advantage line so often. My dad was calling Pierre Spies the new Fourie du Preez (snr)… With our scrums on the front-foot it would give the eightmen extra time.

  • 96

    94@ Balle – It worries me no end that our Bokke forwards coach, Gary Glitter, does not see the true value of scrums… and what happens at the following phases because of the weakened scrums.

    He can argue as and how he wishes, there are 2 basic set phases… scrums and line-outs… that’s where play restarts and the foundations are laid for what follows, simple as that.

    Saying that there are many, many more ruck and maul situations and that therefore those phases are more important is very short sighted. The set phases (quality of possession there) sets the stage for either successful of unsuccessful phases to follow. If you start on the back foot off a scrum then chances of dominating the ruck and maul situations which follow is severely diminished.

  • 97

    @96 GBS – The new role given to Balie Swart might have the positive effect we all hope for. Let hope he alters Gary Gold’s way on thinking.

  • 98

    @97 – To be honest Balie’s help didn’t help the Bulls at all… So we’ll have to wait and see.

  • 99

    35
    Rugbybal, to add, the Currie cup players must have a opportunity to show their goods against the best in the country. It is essential that the Boks also rub noses with the Currie cup players. If not you end up with the situation we had this year, the whole WP team looked like Boks and unbeatable until the big guns came out to test them. 😆
    And put them into place.

    69
    Snoek, Peter did say he wanted to rank the players when he got the job, that was canned. I have my feelings why. It is almost like merit systems that disappeared in SA. Who will do the evaluation is also a big issue.

    Peter also said something in his first few months and it all boils down to the big issue in this debate. He said he wants a group of 45 players on equal level to play for the Boks. All capable of playing top rugby. He started of and picked about 31 players in his first 4 or 5 matches. That also stopped when the results was not good and the pressure on his post mounted.

    So the whole idea to pick a second or 3rd team is good and well but will WE accept any game being lost during this exercise?

  • 100

    99
    PdV did try some off the things we suggest here. I will not accept a 50% win ratio for the Boks, never.
    The reason why we tolerate PdV with all his short comings is his high win ratio.

  • 101

    97@ Balle – As I understand things, Balie is there to assist the Referees in SA with scrum interpretations and teaching THEM the finer aspects of front row and scrum play, not the Bokke and certainly not the Unions.

    The Bokke and the Unions need to follow suit and appoint scrummaging coaches, who in turn should liase closely with Balie..

    In so doing Balie could act as DOSSA (Director of Scrummaging South Africa) instituting a sort of “Scrumming Academy” and “Unified Scrummaging Vision” forward from here for SA…

    … or maybe Balie could act as DOOS in SA (Doctor Of “Ordentlike” Scrums in SA)…. hehehehe

  • 102

    @100 – His winning ratio could be higher.

  • 103

    @99 Superbul – and were they tested, they had no bmt. Loved the game. Never have I seen WP supporters so pissed after that game. I was a very bitter pill to swallow.

    I have been harping on about this on this thread, IMHO I think a proper 2nd stringer team with a professional coaching staff similar to the Bok setup, coached for NH conditions will work and I think they will get better results on the EOYT than we currently get. Like Tim Noakes says it’s a destructive tour short and long term repercussions. It needs to be addressed.

    Superbul, I got to hit the sack. Have a great evening. Thanks to all involved for a stimulating debate.

  • 104

    Erens het iemand genoem, ek dink dit was SuperBul, dat ons te veel games teen die AllBlacks en Ozzies speel. Ek stem 100% saam. Hoekom nie die 3N weer net laat bestaan uit ‘n home and away toets nie? Ja, ek weet die huidige formaat maak dat die ander spanne ook bietjie langer toere het, maar ek glo nog steeds twee games teen elk is genoeg. Dit sal die getal toetse/jaar klaar afbring met 2. Sal dit ook nie lekker wees as daar slegs elke twee jaar 3 Nations is nie met ‘n lekker toer in die alternatiewe jaar?

    Ek sit hier met ‘n box vol koerant uitknipsels en match programs van o.a. 1956 se Bok toer na Australie en NewZealand. Die Bokke het op die 10de Mei in Sydney aangekom. Hulle het 29 games gespeel, waaronder 2 toetse teen Australie en 4 teen die AllBlacks!! Die laaste toets is eers op 1 September gespeel, wat beteken die ouens was 10 dae kort van 4maande op toer!! Dis nou behalwe reistyd. Dis beslis die rede hoekom Ozzie en AllBlack rugby so goed is, ek is seker die “boere” het wild “gesaai” terwyl hulle op so ‘n lang toer was!!

  • 105

    @101 GBS – Oh hell, thanks for sending me off on that note. Very little hope left then that Gary Gold will change his views.

    Goodnight GBS

  • 106

    @104 – More is better, especially when we beat the All Blacks like this year…

  • 107

    Why do we need to play less tests, if we can change the way we practice and be just as effective on the year end tour? I like the longer Tri-Nations, it remains the competition to win in rugby.

  • 108

    @106
    Ek sal happy wees met twee wenne teen die AllBlacks en dan ‘n wen teen die Franse en Iere!!

  • 109

    @107
    Na die S14 en 6 games in die 3N raak ek taamlik gatvol vir ‘n Ozzie en AllBlack gevreet. Oor en oor die selfde spelers! Ek sal eerder wil he ons moet gaan toer in Argentinie of in Frankryk met so twee toetse en ‘n paar klubs games. Of dat die Engelse of Iere hier kom toer vir ‘n paar toetse…

  • 110

    KP, ek het al verskeie kere gesê ek is gatvol vir die Aussies en Abs en wil toetse teen die Franse en die tuisunies sien!! Wat my aanbetref moet die Bokke maar vir die CC gerus word en hulle kan die S14 ook maar minder games maak.

  • 111

    106 – Vanstraaten, Not so sure if more is better mate, only if the Boks get a really good rest somewhere along the way. Probably the best is no Currie Cup for Bok players. That would give them about 4 weeks rest. Then if we had more than one bye in the S14 say two there would be another 2 week rest. Also rotation would help. We need to look after these players otherwise they wont make the world cup. Also future players will just burnout with too much rugby and no rest.

    I like the idea too of playing France 3 times on the eoyt or England, Ireland. Not hop about and play a once off against 4 different teams. Then touring at the eoyt if we played one country 3 times would make it far more interesting with say mid week games for our 2nd side too. Then we HAVE to rest the players during the CC and even rotate them during the S14 to give them as much rest as they can get to keep them sharp and fit.

  • 112

    110 – Boerboel, Evening to you. I feel exactly the same. Players must be rested during the CC and maybe rotate them in the S14 to allow them to get as much rest as possible.

    Although I would always want us to play the ABs. Then the eoyt we should play only one country say 3 times with mid week games. That would make the eoyt exciting.

  • 113

    Jis Boerboel
    Hulle kan die S14 minder maak, maar ek like die CC games. Maar nou ja, soos ons weet gaan alles oor geld. Sou lekker gewees het as die Super14 weer terug gaan na die S12 toe, met die 4 top CC spanne wat die volgende jaar SuperRugby speel. CC kan ook van 8 unies afgebring word na 6 unies met die top 2 na die groepfase wat deurgaan na die final. So sal daar minder games deur die jaar wees, maar meer tyd vir toetse en toere. Ander probleem met vanjaar se EOYT was dat die weekdagspan nie op meriete gekies was nie, nie sy eie afrigter gehad het nie en dat daar te min spelers op toer gegaan het. Ek weet dis baie, maar daar moet ten minste 40 ouens op so ‘n toer gaan sodat die weekdagspan se oefeninge (18 spelers) nie deur die toets span (22spelers) se oefenige belemmer word nie. 4 van die toetsspan se reserwes kan dan vir die weekdag span ook op ie bank diens doen.

  • 114

    Puma
    CC will die if you take out the Bokke.

  • 115

    114 – KingPaul, Not really. Look I enjoyed it a lot this year even before the Boks got back into the side. We have enough depth here to keep it going.

    Boks have to be rested at some point during the year.

    Boks only played about 3 games and the sides that made it to the semi and final. Then some played 4 and others 5. That is far too much. Like them playing a extra 5 games in the S14. If you look at it that way. Cause once the Boks are back it is like S14 sides. I say let the youngsters come through in the CC. Let them play it. Still awesome to watch. Rest our Boks for the tests.

    Otherwise we will go back to sending understrength teams to the NH on the eoyt.

  • 116

    Tri-Nations have more games because the SANZAR wants to make more money, and they do. It makes sense. What could be better than the top three sides in the world duking it out every year?

  • 117

    103@ Balle – Tjorts… it is only because a good thread is supported by good debate by bloggers that it turns into a GREAT THREAD

  • 118

    104
    KP daai saaiery sou darem nou hedendaags uitgeloop het op vele , Jost of Tiger boeke.

    Maar op n ernstige noot, daai 2 toetse minder teen die Aussies en die All Blacks en n Currie Bekker met net die top 6 en maybe n 7de span sal nog 2 tot 4 weke af gee, dan het ons die nodige 6 weke wat almal sal baat.

  • 119

    113 – KingPaul, Agree with you there. We must always select our best 2nd side for the eoyt if we want to play midweek games. Then they need their own coaches too and like you say probably a bigger squad to train with. Then let the Test side do their own thing.

    We missed something this year by not sending a our very best 2nd side. We now know nothing about the players that should have gone. How good they would be or not. We may need some of those players to be ready for the wc. Time is passing by quick. When will those players not get a chance to be tested out against good competition?

  • 120

    @118 – Ek dink ons is ‘n beter span omdat ons teen die All Blacks en Wallabies so baie kan speel. Kyk hoe het Italie verbeter vandat hulle toegevoeg is tot die 5 Nasies. Ek dink ons was baie naief met ons taktiek teen die NH spanne, en ons swakhede het in hulle hande in gespeel. Die heelagters daar kan darem maar ‘n bal vang ;).

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