After the last Test of the Springbok End of Year Tour I found it necessary to get into contact with Professor Tim Noakes, SA’s leading Sports Scientist and also a blogger on this web site, raising the issues of player fatigue and knowing that he has been shouting and warning from the rooftops that SA Players will suffer burnout if not managed properly. Maybe it is best if I share the full sequence of the discussions with you lot nosy muppits….

Well here it is… and I warn you, this is for the devoted reader and true rugby lover….

FIRST MAIL:

Tim,
 
One could see the tired bodies and the emotional tiredness on the faces of some Springboks this Saturday, most notably that of Victor Matlield, his expression said it all.
 
What was perplexing however, was that the other 2 major Southern Hemisphere Teams, the All Blacks and the Wallabies, probably had their respective best games of the season on Saturday… no signs of fatigue at all.
 
I can understand the Australian situation, they do not have a domestic competition which rivals the Currie Cup, so play less games in general than South Africans.
 
The New Zealand situation is vastly different though, they have their strong domestic competitions as well and most All Blacks must have played in a similar amount of games compared to the Springboks.
 
Could it be that the Springboks are mentally somehow more fatigued or not properly mentally led by qualified personnel within the Bokke setup… or is it mostly a physical fatigue factor.
 
Kindly explain to me why there is such a marked difference, if you would, by means of a return mail…. I will then put an Article up with the relevant questions and your explanations…
 
Come on, I’m pushing the soap box right in front of your nose now, time to preach to the masses and to the children (SARU) and the unconverted (Unions)… hahaha.
 
Regards,
 
GBS
(Rugby-Talk)

 

REPLY:

Dear GBS,

The Ausssies and the Kiwi train smarter in my view.  We still have the mentality (in the Provinces) that you have to stuff up the players at every opportunity and that this is how they will develop the discipline to win.   All the rest of the world realizes that matches are excellent training so that once you start playing matches you need to focus on rest and recovery.  The Bok coaching staff know this and rest the players and train the Boks very little when they are in charge of the Boks.

I attach an article I sent to the Cape Times yesterday.  I am not sure if they are going to use it.  You are welcome to use it AS SOON AS THE CAPE TIMES HAVE MADE A DECISION ON IT.  Perhaps you can be in touch with the Cape Times editorial staff to see what they want to do.  I doubt they will publish the article in its entirety but you are welcome to do so.

My major point remains that (i) the consequences of the tour will be felt in 2010 and 2011; (ii) what happened on the tour had been predicted by myself and the Springbok fitness trainer (amongst many others at the Institute involved in monitoring the players) and (iii) the focus of the end of year tour has to change completely so that it is a positive and not a negative for SA rugby.  We have to develop a credible reserve team of upcoming players who can beat the Six Nations teams.  Jake White would be able to do that and there must be other SA coaches who are up to the task.  But unless the team plays together during the year (as I suggest in the article) they will not be able to play to their potential.

Best wishes,

Tim

 

ARTICLE:

In his article “European tour was a complete failure on the scoreboard, but top Boks were physically shot” published on Monday November 30th, Peter Bills ask if “there is anyone in the Springbok squad and party who can see the wood for the trees?”   He concludes that the Springbok players on the recent European tour were “shot, gone, completely finished”.  As a result “everyone was going through the motions.  Neither their hearts nor their bodies were in it from the start”.  Nor it might be added their brains since it is the brain which drives the body (or chooses not to do so when the body is exhausted).

At a press conference organized in Johannesburg on November 4th by Discovery Health, the commercial sponsors of the Springbok medical support team, I presented evidence to explain why 13 Springboks should not be touring Europe in November 2009.  The evidence related not so much to the certainty that the majority of those Springboks would play poorly on the tour – that was sufficiently predictable that it required no intelligent debate – but rather to the long term consequences of this ill-considered decision.

Since 8 (including Pierre Spies) of those 13 players are from the Blue Bulls, that team will be the first to suffer the fallout from the recent European tour.  For those 7 (excluding Spies whose injury will mercifully insure that he is properly rested before the 2010 season) now require an extended period of rest, preferably 8 weeks if next year they are again to do justice to their proven abilities.

But as a direct result of the European tour, those players will only be properly rested if they miss the start of the 2010 Super 15 tournament.   Their absence from those games will impact on the probability that the Blue Bulls will successfully defend their Super 14 crown.  Alternatively should those players begin training too soon so that they play in the first games of that tournament, they will be insufficiently rested; they will carry their fatigue into the 2010 season; all will under-perform at some time next year and some or all will be injured.   The end result will be that unless either the Sharks or the Stormers can fill the gap vacated by a wounded Bulls team, no South African team will dominant the 2010 Super 15 as did the Bulls this year.  The immediate consequence will be that the Springboks will also not be as dominant in the 2010 Tri-Nations as they were this year since psychological dominance over the New Zealand teams during the Super 14 is an important determinant of Springbok success in the Tri-Nations.   This lost dominance will have to be regained by 2011 if South Africa is to win the 2011 Rugby World Cup.   But that task has now been made more difficult and a positive outcome in 2011 has become less likely as a result.

The Bulls need to learn from the Stormers who were taught a hard lesson when they failed to rest four Springboks at the end of the 2008 season.  In the 2008 season those 4 players accumulated 7937 minutes of match play; in 2009 they could manage a meagre 2830 minutes between them – a 64 % reduction in the return on the investment made in them by the Stormers, Western Province and SA Rugby.  One of those players Conrad Jantjies played almost no top-level rugby in 2009 after clocking 2176 minutes in 2009.   It is my opinion that if each of the leading Blue Bull players who accumulated more than 1800 minutes of match play this year is not rested properly before the 2009 season, some will suffer the same fate as did the Stormers’ Springboks in 2009.

The group of Bulls players includes Pierre Spies (2068 minutes – now injured),  Morne Steyn (2018 minutes),  Zane Kirchner (1961 minutes),  Odwa Ndungane (1906 minutes),  Guthro Steenkamp (1844 minutes – also injured),  Fourie du Preez (1835 minutes).  Victor Matfield who had accumulated 1695 minutes before the European tour, who played two additional test matches on the Tour and the game against the Barbarians and who was clearly the Springbok most affected by end-of-season fatigue, will also finish the season with more than 1800 minutes of match play.   In the past 7 seasons Bakkies Botha has not been able to stay injury-free the following season if he played more than 1350 minutes in the previous season.  Prior to the European tour he had already accumulated 1454 minutes.  Thus his back injury on the tour was a predictable “accident” waiting to happen.

Other Springboks who accumulated more than 1800 minutes of match play in 2009 and who are therefore also in need of urgent, long-term rest are Bismarck du Plessis (2422 minutes – probably an all-time Springbok record),  John Smit (2081 minutes),  Tendai Mtawarira (1913 minutes) and Heinrich Brussouw (1718 minutes).  Their totals do not include the additional minutes they accumulated in the 3 most recent European tests.

Although I do not believe that the underperformance of key players was the most critical consequence of the recent European Tour, I fully agree with Peter Bills’ considered opinions.  It is profoundly disturbing still to read the opinions of those experts who believe that a Springbok rugby player never tires, regardless of what he is forced to endure.  As a result these fundis conclude that factors other than fatigue must explain the poor Springbok performances on the European tour. Unfortunately as Bills writes, this is also the publicly expressed opinion of the Springbok rugby captain.

But none of these experts has offered an alternate explanation of how almost all the players in a team that was so dominant just 4 months ago in the Tri-Nations, can quite suddenly be afflicted by a shared disease of profound under-performance.  The only logical explanation must be that those Springboks, who include some of the world’s best players in their respective positions, suddenly wilfully chose to play poorly.  But no world-class athlete ever reaches a position of such eminence if he entertains such thoughts.  This explanation is just stupid.

The reality is that if the Springboks were playing in the world’s most professional football codes – the National Football (gridiron) League in the United States or the Australian (Rules) Football League – their physical underperformance during these recent test matches would have been measured to the nearest Watt, centimetre or meter per second.   Then there would have been no debate about the extent of their recent physical decline.  The absence of proper measurement prevents the exposure of this truth.

The reason why there is no such measurement is also clear.  Some must believe that it is not in their interests if the real extent of this physical exhaustion were to be established and more widely known.  For then the tired players would have to be properly rested and managed and those who failed to act in the players’ interests might be legally accountable.  Instead we avoid the measurement and so suffer the predictable consequences.

Still other experts argue that on their recent European tours, the Wallabies and All Blacks did not appear as tired as the Springboks.  This apparently proves that our players have no reason to be tired; instead the spectre of Springbok fatigue must be a convenient excuse for those players’ wilful choice to under-perform.   But this conclusion ignores two inconvenient facts.

First, the Wallabies are contractually required to rest for 63 consecutive days each year.  During that period their employers, the Australian Rugby Union, can make no demands on its contracted players.  If the Springboks had a similar contract they would certainly have less excuse to be tired.

Second the New Zealand players especially those from the Pacific Islands, do not train as do South African rugby players.  Rather they focus on explosive training of high intensity and short duration with an almost complete absence of endurance running.  It is my opinion that for those players this form of training undertaken is less exhausting over the course of the season than is the typical training to which South African rugby players are exposed.   Indeed current Springbok conditioning coach, Neels Liebell, is on record as saying that when he finally has control of the Springboks’ training especially on the end-of-the-year tours, he finds that the players are so exhausted that he must focus on rest and recuperation  so that they are able to achieve at least some level of performance on the field.

If the Springboks are indeed more tired than they should be on the basis of the minutes of match play they accumulate each season, then the cause will be found in inappropriately demanding training programs with inadequate attention to recovery during the Super 14 and Currie Cup competitions.

Finally a solution must be found for this end-of-year tour debacle if South African rugby is to move to the next level of achievement.  The intellectual solution to the problem is relatively simple.  Either a decision must be made to exclude from the Currie Cup, all uninjured Springboks who have accumulated significant game time in the Super 14, Tri-Nations and incoming Tours.  During this period they need to be ordered home to spend time with their families.   Or alternatively only those Springboks who have played less than a certain number of minutes of match play each year, different for each player, should be considered for the end-of-year-tour.   Springboks who wish to or are needed on the tour will have to be removed from the Currie Cup regardless of all other considerations.

The leading South African players who are not regular Springboks need to form a team under the best available coach and train together for as long as possible between the end of the Super 14 and the start of the Currie Cup.  Properly prepared for European playing conditions and knowledgeable of their opposition, there is no reason why, under a world-class coach, such a team would not be able to outperform a group of tired Springboks on an end-of-year tour.  Given this responsibility, the team would flourish and finally prove that South Africa does indeed have the depth of rugby talent that is so frequently claimed.

The inexplicable paradox is that those who manage South African rugby have proven that they are deeply committed to making this country the world’s leading rugby nation.  But they seem unable to comprehend the magnitude of the damage that the end-of-year tours inflict on that ambition.

Sooner or later a creative solution has to be found to this self-inflicted problem.  Continuing with the current approach simply makes no sense. 

I thank Justin Durandt and Professor Mike Lambert of the High Performance Centre of the Sports Science Institute of South Africa for the data on Springbok playing times.

Professor Tim Noakes,
University of Cape Town and Sports Science Institute of South Africa, Newlands.

 

SECOND MAIL:

Tim,
 
Thank you very much for the response and Article, I will contact the Editorial Staff at the Cape Times just now and hear what they say.
 
I see that Mike Lambert and Justin Durandt was copied in to your reply to me. May I use this opportunity to make my acquaintances here with these gentlemen and say that our Rugby web site, www.rugby-talk.com
  is a supporter-driven SA Rugby web site, no journalistic bull is sold there, we love and discuss rugby… and when the rugby chatter is exhausted, we just have fun. Kindly visit the site, register there and add your voices to the voice of Tim Noakes, myself and the real supporters out there.
 
Tim, I’m one of the converted as far as your viewpoints are concerned… and certainly share your sentiments regarding the way the Unions train or overtrain the players. It is not the first time that I hear the argument about how differently the Kiwi’s train on the practise field and I now understand the significant difference in the End of Year Tour results.
 
To my mind however, there were other contributing factors too which negatively impacted on the Tour results, some of the major factors being:

  • Match squad selection for the 2 midweek games (apart from those selected to go on tour who should never have gone or been chosen) was strange, the use of combinations totally neglected! By this I mean that they employed front rows who had never played with the man next to him and / or behind him in the scrums, the loose forwards were not selected with the proper balance required between a FETCHER at openside, a GRAFTER / TACKLER at blindside and a HANDS OF GOLD STRIKE RUNNER at No 8. In the midweek backline, the halfback pairings had never played together before, neither the centres and the back 3 were from 3 differing Unions as well. In other words, cohesion was neglected.
  • The UNDERVALUE placed on scrumming by Gary Gold, who argues that because there is only about 10 scrums per game with your own throw-in into the scrum. What this view neglects is that 10 bad scrums affect ALL PHASES directly thereafter, where suddenly the pressure on ball possession increases, the opposing loosies and backline are in a more favourable position to turn ball over or slow ball down, which again impacts on the phases thereafter. In addition we gave away at least 6 – 12 points in penalties resulting from “Bad scrummaging”…. and that is the difference between winning and losing. We saw WP and the Stormers struggle and have the now renowned “LIGHT FIVE” reputation when Gary Gold was the forwards coach there… and now we see that the Bokke suddenly have lapsed too and are fielding a so-called “LIGHT FIVE”. Face it, our forwards are’nt feared world wide anymore!
  • The lack of a PLAN B  and executing PLAN B during game time.
  • Playing players out of position and or continuing with the John Smit at TIGHT HEAD experiment, till BJ Botha was finally brought in, injury enforced. This does not only apply to John Smit though, it also spills over to a guy like Andries Bekker who is a typical No 5 lock (in the Victor Matfield mould) and not an enforcer No 4 lock, so to have two typical No 5’s as locks just do not cut it in a game.
  • Players not taken on TOUR… in this regard I want to refer to red-hot players like Willem Alberts, Duane Vermeulen, WP Nel, Sarel Pretorius (scrummie), Lionel Mapoe…. the list goes on. In stead, players way out of form (Gurthro Steenkamp, Chiliboy, Ryan Kankowski, Adi Jacobs) and other players who did not merit inclusion in the first place (Davon Raubenheimer, Bandise Maku). If Second Tier strenght is to be developed or “DEPTH” developed, then certainly there are better ways of achieving this…. like making an “EMERGING BOKKE” team and having them play regularly in a year, go on tour and develop as proper backup.

Anyway, one can probably write a book on the contributing factors alone… and opinions differ… I realise that.
 
Enjoy your day, gentlemen!
 
Regards,
 
GBS
Rugby-Talk

 

REPLY:

Dear GBS,

I agree fully.  We should not fall foul of trying to reduce everything to one simple explanation.  

There is clearly an absence of proper planning and forward thinking.  

These coaches would simply not survive in a really competitive environment like the NFL.  So the problem in SA rugby remains – lack of a really competitive coaching structure that produces world-class coaches who do 99% of things correct all the time – not just ocassionally.  Something has to happen to the end of year tour.  It is a profoundly destructive tour.

Tim

155 Responses to Tim Noakes and GBS debates… interesting stuff!!

  • 31

    Being on the field for 1800 minutes , how much work do players perform? a Runner (like Tim Noakes)run a non stop marathon of about 2.5 hours, or a Comrades of about 6 hours, when they train they cant shy away from minutes in action , if they train for an hour they are active for that period.

    a Rugby player plays roughly 17-20 minutes per game, high intensity though. They might tackle 10-25 times in a game of witch 5 might be hard bone crushing tackles. They have to concentrate in less than half the game time, the rest is static.

  • 32

    Very nice article, and i do agree that we need to manage our players better.

    With regards to resting the players for the year end tour, i do not agree. I am of the view that the top players must play in every test during the year. If the top players are contracted and paid by SARU, they can manage and release these players only when they feel these players need provincial games.

    This scenario will strenghen our backup players in the country, and i for one would like to see some of our current second stringers getting more game time and develop to become stars.

  • 33

    I continue to harp on one specific issue because it is the most obvious one.

    Overplaying our players.

    But you CANNOT limit yourself to one cause alone if you look at where we went wrong.

    In the previous debate we had on this we touched on training methods and I see Tim mentions it again.

    To my mind that is the second most important reason where and why we fail like we did at the EOYT.

    Most of our training methods are;

    a) Outdated
    b) Just plain stupid

    When you start doing your coaching courses you are taught firstly on how to plan training sessions, but most importantly training and playing seasons which includes the pre-, post- and in-season schedules.

    The main problem is to properly plan the season, you need input and expertise from many resources including fitness, medical, recovery and mind/mental coaches.

    This is mostly where our coaches fall flat on their faces.

    Where Peter struggles and what is WAAAAYYYYYYY different from Henry of NZ (GBS this is specifically for you in your question to Tim) is that Peter has absolutely no say in the management of players outside of the national team structures, i.e. for the unions and franchises they play for. He simply lodges polite requests. Henry and NZ Rugby control most of their top players and manage them directly.

    Peter cannot insist that players when outside of the national structure firstly plays in a specific position, or that the unions coaches works on his weaknesses like kicking, defense, fitness, conditioning, whatever…

    He has to rely on those coaches to hopefully address this with no input or even debate taking place (apart from the Bulls apparently who gives PDV the most support according to PDV himself).

    But even incuding the Bulls, it is not the ideal situation.

    We need to MANAGE our players better and in the MANAGEMENT part you include the guys and experts like Tim, but he is just one part of the management.

    You also include how they train, how they are conditioned, how their season is planned etc etc etc.

    ALL OF THIS COMES BACK TO MY BIGGEST BUGBEAR OF SA RUGBY

    And that is the importance of our country, given our vast numbers and player resources and the immense task of managing it, to APPOINT A DIRECTOR OF RUGBY to assist (manage) both the National coach and the franchise/union coaches.

    Of course Jake White and Heyneke Meyer would have been perfect for this.

    In a perfect world I suppose…

  • 34

    Lets say that the Boks get 50 grand per test and play 15 tests a year, 200 grand for the S14 and 100 grand for the CC. Now they are restricted to 8 tests a year at 50 grand a test, 7 S14 games at 100 grand and 4 CC games at 50 grand. I think that you might find that they complain about the loss of earnings.
    I know that it isn’t quite that simple, but you understand what I mean.

  • 35

    Superbul, I agree it will be a mistake for these guys not to play Currie Cup, I also agree that we play too much test rugby, IMO we need to revert back to a 4 match 3N. To manage these players properly and give them the rest (also time in gym, etc) they need, it is suggested that we develop a proper 2nd stringer team trained for NH conditions and coached by a proper coaching staff. I think it’s a great idea, only in my world I guess.

    Just look at how much better Bakkies was after a rest (due to injury) before the 2007 WC. We surely felt his absence, but it was worth it when he came back.

  • 36

    Damn no reply button…

    rugbybal,

    Do we want to follow the route of soccer?

    Do we want club before country scenario?

    Just remember, if we go the route of saying we play too many tests and should cut that down, rather than cutting union or club committments down, clubs start to rule the roost.

    Once clubs start to rule the roost, our clubs (unions) will start competing with European clubs/unions and we all know how that will end.

    So essentially, from where I sit and we are saying, no they must play currie cup and super 14 and cut down tests, currie cup and super 14 will lose eventually because players will still leave for more money to European clubs.

    I say no, our top players need to be rested at union franchise level.

    We only play an average of 11 tests per year, that is nothing.

    For 11 tests, we need our best players all the time, not some second string outfit scenario.

    Players must rest at union level, not test level.

  • 37

    Club before country is awesome. You see super teams that you wouldn’t have seen otherwise. You still get quality international football teams with big names like Netherlands who have guys like van Nistelrooy, Schneider, Robben, etc. in their sides and they do still turn out the big performances, but club football is just the best. I’d love to see rugby go the same way. As long as we are obsessed with international rugby, rugby will stagnate and always keep to its more amateur side. Countries like Argentina, Brazil, etc. can keep strong leagues going despite players playing all over the world. Tell me would you enjoy to see a “Real Madrid of Rugby Team”? With a lot of superstars? Some of the best talent playing together almost every week? It would also be great because we wouldn’t lose as many youngsters to overseas… (Well if we go about our regulations the FIFA way)

  • 38

    38,

    As mentioned, club before country…

    Which clubs do you think will win this battle?

    All our top players will shunt off to Europe which means our CC wont see them, and in all likelyhood, our Super 14 neither.

    So sure, club before country, but then we will need to subscribe to European club games and never see live games with our star players in it.

  • 39

    Off course Europe is where the money is. There’s so many pros for that. I watch most of the rugby on TV anyways. I think it would give the players a fair chance, they’d get the recognition they deserve. A lot of guys are good enough to play international rugby but doesn’t get the chance to do so because of some prejudice coach. Guys like Janno Vermaak, etc. would catch the eyes of more fans and they’d become a superstars which they deserves to be. International rugby minimizes the players who gets exposure to top rugby. How many guys in South Africa have you seen that aren’t afforded the opportunity to proof themselves at the highest level because of the stupid quota system, or coach stupidity?

  • 40

    ~prove not proof…

  • 41

    40.

    Point is quite simple.

    SA will lose players, and you can prepare yourself to watch a watered down CC (even on TV) as is the case when the Boks are away on 3N currently…

    I suppose we will see the likes of Griquas winning it again then however…

  • 42

    @42 – Will make for a better competition, not as one-sided and you’d see the best possible rugby happening in Europe.

  • 43

    42,

    And what about the game locally?

    With less interest you will see less crowds and a smaller TV audience (already happening in Aus and NZ).

    With a smaller TV audience you will see sponsorships disappear.

    With sponsors getting less, the game itself will have less money.

    With less money for the unions development of players and structures will disappear.

    When that happens we will not produce the quality of players we do currently.

    See where this is heading?

    For all rugby’s ‘support’ and strength in SA, it comes largely from the minority of the population which is where it is different from soccer in Brazil or Argentina where the majority of the population supports and plays the game.

    Rugby has an elitist support base which will not support the game itself like soccer in other third world countries if the quality of the game locally diminishes.

  • 44

    I actually wanted to post that I think more effort must be put in to grow rugby under the black and colored communities. If we are to be successful in rugby in 10 – 20 years from now, we need them. The blacks and coloreds also play some exciting rugby, they have the same flair that the New Zealanders, and French players have. I know SARU is doing a lot to grow rugby in the townships and stuff, but those guys are important for the future.

  • 45

    Once again, constructive and intelligent debate by those who know what they are talking about here.
    It simply boils down to our rugby being a professional game that is run on very unprofessional lines.
    The real problem lies in why the above is true, and that is where the maze of politics, self interest and sheer ignorance is evident.

  • 46

    Rugby has the perfect marketing tools to ensure development.

    Unfortunately we have a bunch of clowns in charge in my view to do this effectively and grow interest of the game for the next generations.

  • 47

    45 and 46

    AMEN!

  • 48

    @36 Morne, yeah where is that reply button?

    I also tend to agree with you, but this issue is so broad and any argument can be substantiated in some way. I arrived to my conclusion by taking into account that the players are contracted by the unions that want a return on their investment. I will agree with you that the players need to be rested at union level, but for that to happen they need to be contracted by SA rugby and not the union. IMO if the unions are not going to rest the players sufficiently in the Currie Cup and Super 14 and they are going to play in the 3N, then resting them on the end of year tour becomes a very plausible option, in preparing for the RWC.

  • 49

    Great debate, ouens…keep it up!

  • 50

    48,

    I agree the EOYT can be used on a more experimental basis but remember rugby is also about marketing the game not only here, but over there as well.

    Those okes will bitch if we send half-baked teams over there and it will not ‘sell’ so well.

    Remember how O’Neill bitched when Jake rested his top Boks in the 3N just before the WC?

  • 51

    As far as contracting goes absolutely…

    Our top Boks or contract level A Boks needs to be contracted by SA Rugby.

  • 52

    Can I ask a question how many times have you seen the Springboks not being able to play a full 80 minutes? We lost a lot of test matches this way in the past, where our top Springboks in the beginning of the season in the Tri-Nations could play the first 60 minutes but it was obvious they didn’t have the legs. Even this year we couldn’t keep going through the whole 80 minutes, we’d build up a great lead only to surrender that in the second half, and it was clear it was a fitness issue. When the guys start taking their time to get to their places they are obviously tired.

    Wouldn’t it be better to adjust our training? I know Tim gives reasons why they won’t do it, but wouldn’t it be advantageous for South African rugby in the long-run? (In Super 14, Currie Cup, Tri-Nations, World Cup, etc.) What they’re doing now is kind of like kyk noord… en you know what voort. I’d like to see a rotation system implemented in Springbok rugby as well. We certainly have the depth to consider doing that.

  • 53

    I still say that we must contract our best 50 players in the country and they must be managed nationally and not provincially.

    And get a ranking order in place for players, so that everyone knows where they stand in the pekking order.

  • 54

    @53 – That could easily change in a season and is not an optimal solution.

  • 55

    And while we are at it, replace the hot shots running SA rugby with people who actually loves the game.

    Thank you

  • 56

    54 – What could chance?

  • 57

    29 – RugbyBal, Atree with you. If we send a 2nd side over on the eoyt it has to be our very best 2nd side and not 3rd or 4th best like we sent this year.

    Also agree with Tim.

    I would say our top rugby players should not play more than 9 months rugby a year. Otherwise we not going to see these top players for long. Need to look after them and rest is as important as conditioning and playing the game.

  • 58

    @ 50 Again I agree with your point. So the million dollar question remains. After taking everything into account how do we manage our players better?

    Sending an uncompetitive second stringer team on the EOYT is a bad idea. But what if we have a proper second stringer outfit, proper coaching staff and training for NH conditions. The chance is very good that we will perform better over there than we currently do. How that will shut up the likes of O’Neill.

  • 59

    Atree = Agree.

  • 60

    Morning everyone. Damn it is hot here in Durbs today. Temp was 30 already at 7.30 this morning with 80% humidity today. Temps going up to 34 today. A real hottie. Just better to be inside in the aircon.

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