Although the Boks are the best team in world rugby and are possibly the finest Bok team ever, the debate around Peter De Villiers as coach is as polarised as ever, with those who claim him to be the best Bok coach ever and those who hold the view that he has been fortunate to inherit the best Bok team ever.
This has become a difficult subject to get objectivity on as like many other areas of South African life, it has become political.
Furthermore one gets the impression that a lot of observers are avoiding this subject as whatever your view, you are likely to get attacked by those on the other side of the political spectrum. As a result a lot of the comment tends to scratch the surface without taking a deeper look at what the requirements of a modern day coach should be.
When last did you hear a statement from the manager of the Bok team?
Do we even know who the manager of the Bok team is?
The modern day coach is in effect a manager. He needs to assemble a team of specialists around him who effectively take care of most of the coaching from a practical day to day point of view. The coach is therefore the managing director of the company. In managing his team of specialists and players he needs to be the one who has excellent man management skills as well as possesing the vision and direction in order to keep the team moving forward into the future. So although he needs to emply specialists, such as a scrumming coach, he also needs to have a very good tactical and technical knowledge of the game. This is where team selection becomes one of his most important roles and an area where his ability is tested out in the open for all to see. Simply put, the team selection, tactics and adaption on the day fall upon his shoulders.
Peter De Villiers needs to be judged in the light of the above requirements of a modern day coach. There can be no doubt that his attitude today is very different from when he first took on the job of Bok coach. His failure with the press is well documented. His racial statements in defending himself did not help his cause. His romantic view about the number of black players that should be represented in the team and his stated views on playing a brand of total rugby have all been adjusted as he has no doubt come to understand the pressures of being the Bok coach and the absolute importance of winning as a Bok coach.
In short he appears to have learnt on the job, which in itself is something that all good managers are very capable of. It is true that he has had an exceptional group of players to work with and there can be no discounting his passion and commitment to the cause of Bok rugby. He will still be challenged in the months to come and once again, how he responds as a manager to those challenges will determine his continued success or failure.
The harsh reality is that you are only as good as your last game, whether you are a player or a coach. Here is hoping that the Boks go from strength to strength.
TIGHT HEAD
Emosionele Janne…
not to mention that he stands by his players even if they are guilty of eye gauging. i have the utmost respect for him, especially after hearing how he took the full responsibility after the 3rd lions test loss due to him being told who will play from the higher powers. like all coaches before him he has learnt from his mistakes. long may he be successful!!!!
Good article, I remember me and you having many conversations surrounding PDV.
PDV’s bolt however was shot the day he was appointed, and Hoskins made it out to be a BEE appointment.
From that day, and even today, he will be judged on that fact before anything else.
“In short he appears to have learnt on the job”
You summed it up for me there.
PDV showed he learns from his mistakes. Ricky, Mujati etc not starting anymore. He made a mistake in the Lions test bringing on the bench too early – he learned from that.
He handled the press badly at first,that also seems better.
4@Supa Die Bloubul – Jou lelike fototjie is op die Gallery… eish
@grootblousmile –
Dankie, maar moes jy die eerste gesig wees wat ek sien??! Dis cool daai gallery.
Dankie vir my boodskap van gelukwensing met superbru hierbo ook. Ek sien nou eers.
Morning folks,
Ja, perceptions are interesting and shifting things, aren’t they? Has Snor really changed that much or is it our perception of the man that has changed simply because he has won test matches and trophies?
How come it took us more than 18 months to recognise his loyalty towards his players and management team and the settled environment he has created for them to work in?
Hierdie onderwerp raak nou holrug gery…
Almal weet dat hy die pos oor sy velkleur en beloftes gekry het want hy het nie die ondervinding of kwalifikasies nie.
Almal weet dat hy n WB span geerf het.
Nog nooit het ons soveel talent op een slag vir die Bokke beskikbaar gehad nie.
Ten spyte daarvan het ons sleg op ons moer gekry verlede jaar in die 3 N en die eind jaar toer.
Hy het tot dusver net oorleef op die briljantheid van sekere individuele spelers en Morne se skopskoen.
Ons sit nou met hom opgeskeep, dus kan ek net hoop hy luister na die kenners. So sal hy dan nog baie toetse wen.
@Stan – Ekt jou gemail!
Ek sal gaan kyk.
@AB –
Spot on….. We are being blinded by the last few victories.
@fender –
@Stan – i couldnt agree more…..regarding the subject. like flogging a dead donkey. also must be remembered jw had the same qualifications when he was appointed. but never the less, every coach was critized, and every coach after snor will be critized…..its part of the territory. the thing is whether we like it or not credit can only go to the coach and his support staff….when the chips are down….he alone takes the stick.
Love him or hate him, whatever the merits of his appointment, what will satnd in history is his record, and this year its phenomenal. And his record against NZ aint too shabby, 4/6 so far.
Nee magtig manne, julle kyk in PdV se velkleur vas, dis die dat julle hom so afskiet. Hy het sover ‘n beter rekord as meeste van die ander Bok afrigters, en die spelers het almal moerse respek vir hom. Daar is min ouens wat meer passie het vir Bok rugby as hy!
Trust me, i was one of Whites biggest critics, but i give him all the credit he deserves.
The difference between him and Helium is that he had to build a team where helium inhereted a very good one.
@Martin –
Passie is een ding my vriend en ondervinding en kwalifikasies n ander ding.
As dit van passie afgehang het sou ons almal uitstekende afrigters gewees het!
@KingPaul –
Interesting sides to the coin being discussed here.
Again many of the arguments being put forward re PDV’s qualifications go back to my Development v Transformation debate.
Development will always give an individual both the qualifications and experience required to handle the pressures of ANY job. Transformation will not.
While PDV’s initial appointment may have been something of a “transformation appointment”, what is obvious is that he has received a lot of support and advise from people (call it late development if you will) which is clearly helping him to handle things like the media, and man management of his players.
As mentioned elsewhere on this thread, the players (seem to) have nothing but the greatest of respect for the man, and that can only be earned.
Personally I think he (PDV) has taken a difficult and what must have appeared a daunting task, and made almost light of it. He’s had his ups and downs, but if he were to be assesed against his performance in bussiness terms, I’m sure he would get a good assesment.
Unfortunately the SA Rugby fraternity is a fickle familt, and someone, somewhere will always be able to find fault with anything.
“You can please some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but never all of the people all of the time.”
Let’s look at PDV’s performances post WC 2011. If he wins that maybe his harshest critics will look for and recognise the good he has achieved, and not only the negatives. I doubt it, but maybe.
Kyk, ons het ‘n reg om krities te wees oor ‘n coach.. maar ons het reeds besluit Harry Viljoen en Rudoph Strauli was kak coaches… as ons die argument gebruik dat die spelergroep vir Snorrie eintlik maak wat hy is, moet ons seker konsekwent wees en sê dat Vijoen en Struali se spelers dalk as groep kak was…
Ongelukkig werk dit nie so nie… ons beoordeel regtens net die eindresultaat… en ou Snorrie (wat al onder baie kritiek van my af deurgeloop het oor sy bek-verbypraterigheid en kak vergelykings) hou aan wen.. so welgedaan Snorrie, jy maak duidelik ‘n verskil en jy maak ‘n uitstekende Man-manager uit…
Ek stem nie saam nie.
Beide Straueli en Vijoen was hondkak maar hulle het nie die huidige span of spelerspoel gehad nie.
@grootblousmile –
19@Stan – Waar lê jou beswaar oor Snorrie se coaching vermoeë… watter aspekte van sy breiwerk stem jy nie mee saam nie ?
Kom ons vergeet hier vir wat hy in die media sê… ons praat nou van sy afrigting self…
Enigste probleem wat ek het is sy onoordeelkundige aanwending van plaasvervangers in wedstryde… wat die res aanbetref, dink ek hy maak ‘n reuse sukses….
Stan, it’s always a pleasure to agree with you and I know it also makes GBS very happy when we do! 😉
So, if the safety catch of that gentle persuader that you carry with you to church is on, may I ask whether performance is the only thing that can lead to temporary blindness on the part of the public? Don’t you think that an irresponsible statement by Hoskins (as Morne has suggested) also blinded us in terms of Snor’s inherent strengths such as the humility to seek out and involve Smittie and Victor from the start, and to appoint two assistants who could easily be seen to upstage him?
I’ll tell you why I’m asking this. I haven’t experienced too many leaders (let alone Bok coaches) who have combined humility and loyalty in their way of doing things.
@Scrumdown – PdV’s yardstick at which he will be measured, will unfortunately be JW’s success story. Unfair I say, but the reality.
Like all coaches in SA, you are bound to fail, but Snorre’s fall will come quicker than his meteoric rise.
While he’s winning, he’s the man. When he starts to fail (loose), critics will come at him fast and furious.
Ek moet se hy het my mond al stil gemaak, ja hy is vir my soos Comical Ali, maar die spelers love hom en hy love rugby en verder kan mens sien die spelers sal deur vuur vir hom loop, dit vir my is alklaar die war half won….enige coach wat se spelers hom ten volle support en met sy styl en idees inkoop het alklaar ‘n wenkombinasie. en lets face it, toe Ludeke by die bulls oorvat, ook ‘n wenspan, s14 champs etc etc het dit hulle ‘n hele jaar gevat om weer te settle, snorre het nie daai probleem ondervind nie, so hy moet iets regdoen, ja hy het ‘n span vol champs ge-erf, maar hy bestuur hulle duidelik reg sodat hulle champs bly
21@fender – Grrrr… you make me appear to be the ogre waiting in the background…waiting to pounce!
22@isigidi – I hear exactly what you are saying. As stated elsewhere, you’re only as good as your last game.
The question is whether PDV will be able to step up to the plate and keep the winning percentages high.
The SA Rugby public (for the most part) don’t give a tinkers cuss about how the Bokke win, as long as they do.
If PDV can keep winning an acceptable percentage of games, why get rid of him?
Many people slagged him off before he’d even been in control of the team for one game. Now he’s proving that (albeit with a great group of players) he can take the raw elements and knead them into a workable recipe.
I personally think that there are “better qualified” coaches in this country who could have flukced it all up in halve the time he has taken to gain a degree of success.
He’s not perfect, but few of us are.
Woodward built himself a fantastic team that wwon 2003. Barring a few injuries and retirements, he still had the core of that team in 2004, and when things went pearshaped he resigned. England still hasn’t been the same since then, and only 1 poor game by Aus allowed them into the finals of WC 2007. And would we call Woodward bad coach?
I wanted HM to be Bok coach as he was better qualified. But maybe PDV was the best coach to handle these players. They all came back from a WCUP win, all very experienced and knew each other very well and knew exactly what to do and when.
Maybe PDV giving the players more freedom to lead, make decisions is what they needed. Not someone to try and change things to much and start from scratch.
Wether PDV is n great “coach” or only a “manager” is debatable. But he has proven me wrong by keeping these guys together and learning from his mistakes like Bolla, Mujati etc.
25@Scrumdown – I’m not perfect either… but hell, I come bloody close… hehehehe
Lets say you start your own rugby klub. You dont have any players yet. You need to choose a coach to get inexperienced players and coach them from scratch at your club and turn them into a great team. Who would you chose?
Div did not inherit a great team like most said , howcome this great team in 4 years under White could not win once , yes once away against the ABS ?? break down the team and you will find that many players are playing firstly out of their position they played in 2007.
Fullback – Monty then , Steyn Now
Wings – the same
Centres – No Jean then
Flyhalf – Butch then , Steyn now
Scrummie – the same
8th man – Spies now , Danie then ??
Open flank – Burger then , brussouw now
Bindside – Juan Smith then and now but ut looks like Burger for future , at least near future given Juans injuries
Locks – Same
Loosehead – OS retired , beast now
Hooker – Smit then , Bissie now
tighthead – Smit now , who was then ?? BJ ?
The only thing that stayed the same is the lock pairing and wingers , everywhere else there has been changes.
Furthermore , would White pick Broussow ? even after the Lions test matches Jake White said he would not pick broussow for the Trinations when Schalk is avaialble
Would Meyer Pick Steyn ?? He favoured Hougaard for years at the Bulls over Steyn.
So jaa , Div inherited this great team of invinsibles who before he took over was unbeatable. Remember 96 when Maakraaf inherited the 95 WC winning team ? How wonderful was he ?
Jake White did a lot of good things for SA rugby and we are in debt , likewise so did Peter De Villiers , give the man the credit he richly deserves , he proved it over 10 folds !!
Someone said it once and I think this sums up the situation the best , Peter Div would not have gotten to where he is now without the help of White , Jake White would not have taken the Boks to where Div has.
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