This is the question on the lips of many, jus who should play No 8 for the Bokke?
In South Africa the debate is still continuing over who is our premier No 8.
Obviously everyone has their favourite when it comes to the player that should be the link between the forwards and the backs, but let’s compare the candidates.
In the past few months Willem Alberts, Duanne Vermeulen, Ryan Kankowski and Pierre Spies have been mentioned as our best No 8’s. Let’s look at them critically and objectively and consider their weak and strong points, if starting in the current Bokke set-up.
Willem Alberts:
The Lions No 8 has been playing good rugby during the Curry Cup and has performed well over the past 12 months or so. Playing in a struggling Lions team Alberts is often used to get his team over the advantage line.
The old Monnas boykie is a strong, powerfull ball carrier who carries two or three defenders with him over the the advantage line. From 5m out, Alberts is very difficult to stop. Being so big and strong makes Alberts win collisions as well.
However, Alberts might just be too slow to be a modern No 8. At Test level rugby is played at the quickest pace and at least one loose forward needs to be as quick as the backs. With Brussouw and Juan Smith playing at 6 and 7 respectively, the Bokke need a pacy No 8. (Brussouw and Smith are both excellent players and have their own fine qualities, but they are not really known to be the quickest around the park. Yes, they are quick enough to run 15m to the next ruck, but often we see Spies, Bakkies, Matfield or Bekker get to the ball first when when a ball is kicked through).
Thus, Alberts won’t fit in the set-up when Brussouw and Smith plays. Also, Alberts is not competitive enough in the line-outs and our Bokke place huge emphasizes on competing in the line-out, from front to back.
Duanne Vermeulen:
The Western Province loose forward has recently made a move from Bloemfontein to the Cape. At the Cheetahs Vermeulen had often been used as No 8, however, since Vermeulen made the move to WP, he has been playing at blindside flank.
Vermeulen likes his rugby hard and tough. He provides the grunt WP needs since they prefer to play the “fetcher” (Luke Watson) at the back of the scrum. Vermeulen is a strong ball carrier and get through loads of work around the field. He doesn’t mind taking contact and often wins the collisions. He can be used as a strong line-out option at the back of the line-out. He also makes turnovers every now and then.
He has been playing consistently good rugby the past few years, although he has been injured for the first part of the CC.
With Duanne Vermeulen not getting game-time at No 8 it’s difficult to compare him to the other No 8’s objectively. He did well when playing at the back of the scrum at the Cheetahs, but that was almost a year ago. Can we still judge him on that performance?
Although he is a strong line-out option, he doesn’t compete enough on opposing ball. Like Alberts, Vermeulen is not nearly as quick as Kanko or Spies around the field. We need a quick No 8, no question.
Vermeulen is a solid option, and won’t let you down, but he does not seem to have that elusive X-factor.
Ryan Kankowski:
The debate between who is better, between Kanko and Spies have been continuing for years now. This is probably due to the fact that they are the same “type” of player.
Kankowski has been playing behind Spies in the pecking order during the past year and has mostly warmed the Bokke bench.
When he’s had his chance at Test level before, he has done little to prove that he is better than Spies.
He is playing good rugby at the Sharks, during the CC. Kanko is an explosive runner and his speed is his strong point. He often out-runs the backs and has been involved in many tries, running like a wing.
Kanko is a tall, lean and pacy No 8 who can side-step and he is often used as a 8th backline player. He is also a decent line-out option and quick to pick up and make a run from the back of the scrum.
Although Kanko is tall, he is not the strongest No 8 out there. When the game gets tight he often disappears and he definately prefers an open game. When playing against a strong pack of forwards he struggles to cross the advantage line and is often tackled backwards.
In short, he is a poor man’s Spies.
Pierre Spies:
Pierre Spies has all the attributes which it takes to be the best No 8 in the world. His old coach Heyneke Meyer called him a “frats” (freak), due to the fact that he runs as quick as the fastest backline players, bench presses as much as props and jumps a high as locks.
Spies is our current premier No 8 and would’ve had a World Cup medal, had he not missed the tournament through illness.
So what makes Spies the best?
Spies is an explosive runner like Kankowski and as quick as any back out there. In addition, Spies is strong and gets his team over the advantage line with great success. He is a strong and solid line-out option and has stolen many balls from opposing line-outs.
Give Spies enough space and he will run you ragged. What makes Spies better is the way he reacts in broken play. We often see a wing or centre break through our defence or kick a ball through… who’s behind and covering – Spies. He’s often the first or only one there to save the day. We see the same thing on attack when the opponents have to run back to save a try. Spies will often be there first to make the tackle. With Brussouw and Smith not that quick, we need Spies in the Bokke team.
His obvious weak points lie in 2 factors, his defence and his ability to control ball at the back of a scrum. He often misses the first tackle, something he has obviously worked hard on because it seems to be improving. A classic No 8 has “golden hands” and behind the scrum, he is not always up to scratch. In addition, Pierre is rumoured to disappear in tight games, which has lately proved to be a fallacy.
Spies has that elusive X-factor which makes him special. (I’ve included a link at the bottom which proves why he is feared with his X-factor.) Some believe that Spies is as close as we will get to the perfect No 8.
Playing with Fourie Du Preez regularly at the Bulls, they have a good understanding. Spies, du Preez and Steyn has proved themselves as a winning combination.
Hello boys & girls.
Gou my hou inkry — julle gesien wie is bo oppie log? hehehe
Hemel bulle selfs WP is julle voor — seker die dat julle moan die WP-agterlyn gaan vol bulle wees – as hulle volgende jaar wen (OK, verloor teen Sharks in final 🙂 ) gaan julle seker se dis julle A-span wat nou op holiday is by die see.
@SA Barbarians – Skerp , baie skerp. Toe gaan nou maar. 😆
@sharky_forever – I can recall during the WP/Northern Transvaal era in the early 80’s and the 2 year forced Defence Force years, all the schools provincial players were either called up to Pretoria, or WP.
@isigidi –
Jy moet onderskei tussen wedstryd geld en kontrak geld. Onthou, die junior wat bv opgetrek word in Morne se plek is reeds onder kontrak by die Bulle. Hy kry nie skielik meer omdat hy op n hoer vlak speel nie. Hy gaan wel wedstrydgeld ook kry waar hy nie souas hy nie gespeel het nie bv Brummer. Dan word sy kontrak hersien aan die einde van die tydperk. As die ou nou n ster is, sal hy aansienlik meer geld ontvang.
Die Bokke het sekere spelers wat onder kontrak is soos JS, Matfield ens en hulle kry wedstrydgeld ook nog by. Ek is nie seker hoe werk hulle met nuwelinge nie, sover ek weet kry hulle net vir eers wedstryd geld tot hulle n kontrak aangebied word want hy kry nog geld by sy unie ook.
Supa – K9 boikot seker hierdie thread?
@sharky_forever – You are spot on – I was also called up. To Tswane, not to Cape Town however. NTVL called up from all over the country, including the Western Cape. I was a Natal boytjie those days – Eshowe.
The point is that buying players is part and parcel of the professional era, and every union does it.
By the way I am not a lad anymore, I have a few gray hairs on my chest hehehehe 🙂
175@SA Barbarians –
True. Ek verwys eintlik na hulle vorige SA unie. Maar hy het bekend geword as Leeu. dis nogsteeds nie wp nie.
@trupisero – Kooorek, 😆 Man julle hoop nou om op n ander manier die Bulle te verswak, koop ons bestes en laat hulle rus op die bank.
@isigidi – yup issi its true trust me
you know a good exampple is andre joubert , honiball, hentie maartens, and many more were either up in blowm for university or defence
remember natal does not have an afrikaans university
but they born and raised natal boys
cliffie brown , my own cousin ronnie haaroff ex natal center from the 80’s joel stransky just to name a tiny few were all natal boys called up for military
and all had a time with bulls
@isigidi –
nou waarnatoe sou jy wou gaan? – Youngsfield of Pomfret?
😆@superBul –
@trupisero –
Ek dink hy hak nog vas by Alberts en lees die sterkpunte oor en oor. 😆
189@superBul –
dissie WP se triek daai – ons koop die Vrystaat leeg….;)
thats not the point , and we aint crying about it , but we keep hearing how we sharks buy ?? all im saying is its all fair in love and war
it was just the way it was in the old days , not atleast us sharks pay for what we take 😉
@trupisero –
@SA Barbarians –
Is jy ouer as GBS en K9?
@superBul – Sharks is soos Maties en Tukkies vir Grey Bloem outjies. 🙂
@SA Barbarians – 😆 boet
192@Supa Die Bloubul –
hehehe..ook waar.
Sharky — welcome boet – good to have some additional sharks supporters here.
lol boet was teasin anyhows and cool
you have no more love for the sharks??
@SA Barbarians –
@sharky_forever – Hey and we send them all back, men. With some great skills and experience in winning, something die Piesangboere did not smaak before 1990
Paul Roos 9 Grey Bloem 3
197,198,199
Hier is nou flippen baie “boet’s” hier rond.
@trupisero – dankie boet , so lekker om net rugby te praat
😯
@isigidi –
Regtig? Op n Sondag?
dis die broederbond 😆 😆 😆@Supa Die Bloubul –
194@sharky_forever –
Nothing wrong with buying in the right positions — at least we are getting a number of youngsters through the ranks.
Remember old days Natal & Province were about the only provinces where overseas players came to play,besides the odd pommie for TVL.
Can’t seem to recall any foreign players ever playing for N-Tvl? Anyone?
boet jan , boetkoos , en ouboet sharkydoos 😆 ;lol: lol supa just jk mate
@Supa Die Bloubul –
@sharky_forever –
hehe..pasop dat julle klomp “boet’s” nie n boete kry nie! 😆
@trupisero – true
but yes the bulls haad the welshman with the very parge ears at 10 lol
jenkins
and they had one or 2 others
@sharky_forever –
Funny…hehe…even having a dig at yourself! 😆
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