This is the question on the lips of many, jus who should play No 8 for the Bokke?
In South Africa the debate is still continuing over who is our premier No 8.
Obviously everyone has their favourite when it comes to the player that should be the link between the forwards and the backs, but let’s compare the candidates.
In the past few months Willem Alberts, Duanne Vermeulen, Ryan Kankowski and Pierre Spies have been mentioned as our best No 8’s. Let’s look at them critically and objectively and consider their weak and strong points, if starting in the current Bokke set-up.
Willem Alberts:
The Lions No 8 has been playing good rugby during the Curry Cup and has performed well over the past 12 months or so. Playing in a struggling Lions team Alberts is often used to get his team over the advantage line.
The old Monnas boykie is a strong, powerfull ball carrier who carries two or three defenders with him over the the advantage line. From 5m out, Alberts is very difficult to stop. Being so big and strong makes Alberts win collisions as well.
However, Alberts might just be too slow to be a modern No 8. At Test level rugby is played at the quickest pace and at least one loose forward needs to be as quick as the backs. With Brussouw and Juan Smith playing at 6 and 7 respectively, the Bokke need a pacy No 8. (Brussouw and Smith are both excellent players and have their own fine qualities, but they are not really known to be the quickest around the park. Yes, they are quick enough to run 15m to the next ruck, but often we see Spies, Bakkies, Matfield or Bekker get to the ball first when when a ball is kicked through).
Thus, Alberts won’t fit in the set-up when Brussouw and Smith plays. Also, Alberts is not competitive enough in the line-outs and our Bokke place huge emphasizes on competing in the line-out, from front to back.
Duanne Vermeulen:
The Western Province loose forward has recently made a move from Bloemfontein to the Cape. At the Cheetahs Vermeulen had often been used as No 8, however, since Vermeulen made the move to WP, he has been playing at blindside flank.
Vermeulen likes his rugby hard and tough. He provides the grunt WP needs since they prefer to play the “fetcher” (Luke Watson) at the back of the scrum. Vermeulen is a strong ball carrier and get through loads of work around the field. He doesn’t mind taking contact and often wins the collisions. He can be used as a strong line-out option at the back of the line-out. He also makes turnovers every now and then.
He has been playing consistently good rugby the past few years, although he has been injured for the first part of the CC.
With Duanne Vermeulen not getting game-time at No 8 it’s difficult to compare him to the other No 8’s objectively. He did well when playing at the back of the scrum at the Cheetahs, but that was almost a year ago. Can we still judge him on that performance?
Although he is a strong line-out option, he doesn’t compete enough on opposing ball. Like Alberts, Vermeulen is not nearly as quick as Kanko or Spies around the field. We need a quick No 8, no question.
Vermeulen is a solid option, and won’t let you down, but he does not seem to have that elusive X-factor.
Ryan Kankowski:
The debate between who is better, between Kanko and Spies have been continuing for years now. This is probably due to the fact that they are the same “type” of player.
Kankowski has been playing behind Spies in the pecking order during the past year and has mostly warmed the Bokke bench.
When he’s had his chance at Test level before, he has done little to prove that he is better than Spies.
He is playing good rugby at the Sharks, during the CC. Kanko is an explosive runner and his speed is his strong point. He often out-runs the backs and has been involved in many tries, running like a wing.
Kanko is a tall, lean and pacy No 8 who can side-step and he is often used as a 8th backline player. He is also a decent line-out option and quick to pick up and make a run from the back of the scrum.
Although Kanko is tall, he is not the strongest No 8 out there. When the game gets tight he often disappears and he definately prefers an open game. When playing against a strong pack of forwards he struggles to cross the advantage line and is often tackled backwards.
In short, he is a poor man’s Spies.
Pierre Spies:
Pierre Spies has all the attributes which it takes to be the best No 8 in the world. His old coach Heyneke Meyer called him a “frats” (freak), due to the fact that he runs as quick as the fastest backline players, bench presses as much as props and jumps a high as locks.
Spies is our current premier No 8 and would’ve had a World Cup medal, had he not missed the tournament through illness.
So what makes Spies the best?
Spies is an explosive runner like Kankowski and as quick as any back out there. In addition, Spies is strong and gets his team over the advantage line with great success. He is a strong and solid line-out option and has stolen many balls from opposing line-outs.
Give Spies enough space and he will run you ragged. What makes Spies better is the way he reacts in broken play. We often see a wing or centre break through our defence or kick a ball through… who’s behind and covering – Spies. He’s often the first or only one there to save the day. We see the same thing on attack when the opponents have to run back to save a try. Spies will often be there first to make the tackle. With Brussouw and Smith not that quick, we need Spies in the Bokke team.
His obvious weak points lie in 2 factors, his defence and his ability to control ball at the back of a scrum. He often misses the first tackle, something he has obviously worked hard on because it seems to be improving. A classic No 8 has “golden hands” and behind the scrum, he is not always up to scratch. In addition, Pierre is rumoured to disappear in tight games, which has lately proved to be a fallacy.
Spies has that elusive X-factor which makes him special. (I’ve included a link at the bottom which proves why he is feared with his X-factor.) Some believe that Spies is as close as we will get to the perfect No 8.
Playing with Fourie Du Preez regularly at the Bulls, they have a good understanding. Spies, du Preez and Steyn has proved themselves as a winning combination.
@SA Barbarians – I also i could have called him a Tata bakkie
@isigidi – Kyk wat se n ou op die Bulle se plek.
Habana sal basies net vir die Super 14 beskikbaar wees.
Paar wedstryde vir die WP en dalk glad vir die WP in 2011 nie.
Want hy sal Springbokdiens moet doen in die Wereldbeker.
So die Bulle spaar baie geld met hom.
Kry ‘n groot voorry.
Posted by Wes-Transvaal Blou Bul (Noordwes)
@SA Barbarians –
It refers to the following players on the top of my mind. AJ, Ricky, Joe, Brits.
@superBul –
😆
@superBul –
Maak nie saak nie. Ek sou hom nogsteeds eerder by ons volgende jaar gehad wanneer ons weer die s14 wen.
@superBul – Word die Unies nie gekompenseer vir die tyd wanneer spelers Bok rugby speel nie?
Surely kry hulle nie Unie geld en Bok kontrak geld op gelyke tye nie? Ek weet regtig nie hoe dit werk. Weet jy?
@isigidi –
Hulle het twee kontrake. Hulle kry daai unie geld maak nie saak wat nie. Beserings, Bok call ups of te nie. Hulle weet mos nie wanneer n ou n Bok of beseer word nie. Net so het Perpignon miljoene vir Carter betaal vir 2 wedstryde.
@Supa Die Bloubul – Jis , ja hy moet nou nie n wendrie vir die WP teen ons druk nie ek beskuit my sommer. Maar soos ek gese het hulle koop n Ferrari. Net een ding n ou wat so lank by die Bulle was gaan een van twee dinge doen , te veel try om ons te wys of bang wees vir sy ou maats(Bakkies). dan ook ken ons sy truuks so hopelik leer hy nie nuwes nie.
@Supa Die Bloubul –
Sommige kontrakte is egter net vir bv “een seisoen in die top 14”
@Supa Die Bloubul – Habana was abnormaal goed gedurende sy speler van die jaar toekenning. Daarna het hy werklik nog nie die veld aan die brand gespeel nie.
Kyk, ek sê nie hy is NIE goed nie, maar miskien nie so goed as ‘n jaar of 2 gelede nie, beslis.
Habana het vir my ‘n bietjie van ‘n show-pony geword. Hande oppi kop kyk na replay op TV sodra hy by spel betrokke was. Als altyd ‘n “was so amper” scenario gesiggie.
Feit dat hy WP toe kom, gaan dit nie verander nie. Persoonlik dink ek Van den Heever sou hom gelig het uit Bulls span voor einde van volgende jaar.
@superBul –
As Habana n wendrie teen ons druk gaan dit voel soos vir KPaul as Earl Rose die bal uitskop aan die einde van die game! 😆
@superBul – Hoop nie hy verloor vorm op die bank nie, want hy sal eers vir Aplon, Joe Pietersen en Chavanga moet lig 🙂
@Supa Die Bloubul – ek hou meer van die sharks en die bulle se uitkyk
hulle koop deesdae minder en maak self groot , as n mens kyk nou na die sharks sonder 15 gereelde spelers wat uit is
tog is hull bo , en die bulle is ook daar bo , wp het maar 3 bokke
jy self sien hoe baie van die nuwe jonges by die sharks begin regkom
wat het wp as daai gekoopde spelers uit is ?? soos vir bok diens?
@isigidi –
Ek hoor jou en stem halfpad saam. Hy was nog nooit weer so goed soos 2007 nie. 2008 was hy swak. MAar in 2009 het hy vir my weer begin geod speel ten spyte van spoed wat hy verloor het. Hyt 7 of 8 driee gedruk in die s14 wat nie sleg is nie. Ek sou hom en Gerhard egter saam wou gesien, maar geluk het ons Gerhard wat nou hand opsteek want MAmetsa en Delport is nie naby aan n kwaliteit plaasveravnger nie.
@superBul – 125 – Thanks superBul, it will really give us a sporting boost to regain The Ashes. The crowd sound in good voice at the Oval, lots of singing……Oh happy day!
@sharky_forever – 111 That was the right answer!! 😆
Pierre Spies with Kanko on the bench. Duane Vermeulen should specialize at blindside, also Nick Koster also needs to come into the picture at nr. 8. I think Rassie should’ve waited with the kid.
@SA Barbarians –
Volgende jaar lyk die Stormers se agterlyn so:
Ricky (Lions)
Willem (Cheetahs)
Habana (Bulle)
Mossie (Lions)
Welsh (Bulls)
Jantjies (Leeus)
😆
@Supa Die Bloubul – presies wat ek se
look at ur new wing ? excellent prospect
fact is provonce are looking mostly backline , and when bulls and sharks are at full strength in their forwards the wp pact will struggle as before
@Supa Die Bloubul – 😆
@sharky_forever –
Goeie punt. Ek stem nogal saam. Die Sharks se juniors en strukture het ongelooflik verbeter en die akademie speel n rol. Sharks was tot 3 jaar terug nooi kompeterend in 0/19, 0/21 en Vodacom cup nie. Nou is hulle.
@sharky_forever – As ek ‘n Cheetah ondersteuner was sou ek met gesag kon reageer op die eerste paragraaf.
Maar as ‘n gematigde en beskeie WP ondersteuner, verstaan ek met groot empatie hoe Shark ondersteuners die geskiedenis van hoe hulle hulself uit die B afdeling gekoop het, probeer vergeet 🙂
Anyway, ek moet gou ‘n draai erens maak, so ek sal die gangbang nou moet verlaat
@Supa Die Bloubul – Indien ‘n Unie speler uit die pool verwyder word om Bok te speel, moet daar ‘n ander speler uit sê Vodacom opgebring word. Hy gaan tog meer geld kry?
Bok spelers het Saru kontrakte, maar wat van nuwelinge soos, Brussow en Steyn? Word hulle uit die Unie verwyder sonder vergoeding? Mind you, dis ok maar net vir 3 Nasies nou, maw 6 games. Dan weer, dis oor 8 weke, so 2 maande. Mmmmmm..
@Supa Die Bloubul –
Mercenaries!
@Supa Die Bloubul – Langs Habana se naam behoort volgens jou argument Golden Lions te staan – die Bulle het hom daar gaan koop
@SA Barbarians – ja goeie punt , and that how you so conviniently forget how all those years you and other provinces stole our players at will with forces and universities , and lad please dont try deny , i myself had a call up for that reason plus many friends
one cliffie brown too got that call up
see tables have turned ??? 😉
@sharky_forever –
Ja, you are right. When the Bulls and Sharks are at full strength they are our best. Bulls will have the same s14 squad next year bar Rayno Gerber and Habana. Gerber is useless anyway. But we will have Gerhard, Flip, Brummer, Francois H, Francis, Kirsten etc with more experience extra.
Same with Sharks. And they have Hernandez.
@vanStraaten – Hey man jy gekom , jy gaan dit geniet hier, bring Mosselbaai saam hy skryf goed.
@isigidi – this is why i agree with supa
yes sharks are nurturing youngsters and it takes time
so to the bulls
with time this bok players wont be an issue
exactly boet , and the new youngsters must just stand up , just like monty has atlast , you have a brilliant under 21 team
thats the future…
@Supa Die Bloubul –
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