This is the question on the lips of many, jus who should play No 8 for the Bokke?
In South Africa the debate is still continuing over who is our premier No 8.
Obviously everyone has their favourite when it comes to the player that should be the link between the forwards and the backs, but let’s compare the candidates.
In the past few months Willem Alberts, Duanne Vermeulen, Ryan Kankowski and Pierre Spies have been mentioned as our best No 8’s. Let’s look at them critically and objectively and consider their weak and strong points, if starting in the current Bokke set-up.
Willem Alberts:
The Lions No 8 has been playing good rugby during the Curry Cup and has performed well over the past 12 months or so. Playing in a struggling Lions team Alberts is often used to get his team over the advantage line.
The old Monnas boykie is a strong, powerfull ball carrier who carries two or three defenders with him over the the advantage line. From 5m out, Alberts is very difficult to stop. Being so big and strong makes Alberts win collisions as well.
However, Alberts might just be too slow to be a modern No 8. At Test level rugby is played at the quickest pace and at least one loose forward needs to be as quick as the backs. With Brussouw and Juan Smith playing at 6 and 7 respectively, the Bokke need a pacy No 8. (Brussouw and Smith are both excellent players and have their own fine qualities, but they are not really known to be the quickest around the park. Yes, they are quick enough to run 15m to the next ruck, but often we see Spies, Bakkies, Matfield or Bekker get to the ball first when when a ball is kicked through).
Thus, Alberts won’t fit in the set-up when Brussouw and Smith plays. Also, Alberts is not competitive enough in the line-outs and our Bokke place huge emphasizes on competing in the line-out, from front to back.
Duanne Vermeulen:
The Western Province loose forward has recently made a move from Bloemfontein to the Cape. At the Cheetahs Vermeulen had often been used as No 8, however, since Vermeulen made the move to WP, he has been playing at blindside flank.
Vermeulen likes his rugby hard and tough. He provides the grunt WP needs since they prefer to play the “fetcher” (Luke Watson) at the back of the scrum. Vermeulen is a strong ball carrier and get through loads of work around the field. He doesn’t mind taking contact and often wins the collisions. He can be used as a strong line-out option at the back of the line-out. He also makes turnovers every now and then.
He has been playing consistently good rugby the past few years, although he has been injured for the first part of the CC.
With Duanne Vermeulen not getting game-time at No 8 it’s difficult to compare him to the other No 8’s objectively. He did well when playing at the back of the scrum at the Cheetahs, but that was almost a year ago. Can we still judge him on that performance?
Although he is a strong line-out option, he doesn’t compete enough on opposing ball. Like Alberts, Vermeulen is not nearly as quick as Kanko or Spies around the field. We need a quick No 8, no question.
Vermeulen is a solid option, and won’t let you down, but he does not seem to have that elusive X-factor.
Ryan Kankowski:
The debate between who is better, between Kanko and Spies have been continuing for years now. This is probably due to the fact that they are the same “type” of player.
Kankowski has been playing behind Spies in the pecking order during the past year and has mostly warmed the Bokke bench.
When he’s had his chance at Test level before, he has done little to prove that he is better than Spies.
He is playing good rugby at the Sharks, during the CC. Kanko is an explosive runner and his speed is his strong point. He often out-runs the backs and has been involved in many tries, running like a wing.
Kanko is a tall, lean and pacy No 8 who can side-step and he is often used as a 8th backline player. He is also a decent line-out option and quick to pick up and make a run from the back of the scrum.
Although Kanko is tall, he is not the strongest No 8 out there. When the game gets tight he often disappears and he definately prefers an open game. When playing against a strong pack of forwards he struggles to cross the advantage line and is often tackled backwards.
In short, he is a poor man’s Spies.
Pierre Spies:
Pierre Spies has all the attributes which it takes to be the best No 8 in the world. His old coach Heyneke Meyer called him a “frats” (freak), due to the fact that he runs as quick as the fastest backline players, bench presses as much as props and jumps a high as locks.
Spies is our current premier No 8 and would’ve had a World Cup medal, had he not missed the tournament through illness.
So what makes Spies the best?
Spies is an explosive runner like Kankowski and as quick as any back out there. In addition, Spies is strong and gets his team over the advantage line with great success. He is a strong and solid line-out option and has stolen many balls from opposing line-outs.
Give Spies enough space and he will run you ragged. What makes Spies better is the way he reacts in broken play. We often see a wing or centre break through our defence or kick a ball through… who’s behind and covering – Spies. He’s often the first or only one there to save the day. We see the same thing on attack when the opponents have to run back to save a try. Spies will often be there first to make the tackle. With Brussouw and Smith not that quick, we need Spies in the Bokke team.
His obvious weak points lie in 2 factors, his defence and his ability to control ball at the back of a scrum. He often misses the first tackle, something he has obviously worked hard on because it seems to be improving. A classic No 8 has “golden hands” and behind the scrum, he is not always up to scratch. In addition, Pierre is rumoured to disappear in tight games, which has lately proved to be a fallacy.
Spies has that elusive X-factor which makes him special. (I’ve included a link at the bottom which proves why he is feared with his X-factor.) Some believe that Spies is as close as we will get to the perfect No 8.
Playing with Fourie Du Preez regularly at the Bulls, they have a good understanding. Spies, du Preez and Steyn has proved themselves as a winning combination.
@St.Petersburgbok –
Spies has dodgy hands
@Apoc184 – Smart career move 🙂
Spies
Kanko
Vermeulen
Alberts
Next big thing will be Dewald Potgieter, but maybe at 7.
@SA Barbarians –
You really think so?
Im not so sure.
Well Carol now we can step of the Cricket , you guys beat Australia properly, congrats to all the ENGLAND supporters.
You won the Ashes and send Australia to the 4th spot in World Cricket Rankings.
Off course now SA is well and truly world champs in Cricket , leading the one day rankings and you all know the Rugby titles.
@Supa Die Bloubul –
on the bench as a impact player you have to play kanko
@Apoc184 –
His gonna go the same route as Ricky, Brits, Joe etc.
It would be really bad news for Habana to move to Province.
I believe a career mistake. Better to have moved overseas rather.
he should know better than to move to the “Auld Enemy”.
It will be open season.
If it is indeed correct…not Bernie talking pish again.
Expect to see the Bulls recruit someone of “high calibre” before next season’s S14.
….please get BJ Botha or CJ van der linde. And it would not hurt to get another more experienced winger either.
@Apoc184 – It is an open secret that Habs wants to play behind a dominating pack for a change 🙂
@Supa Die Bloubul – You conveniently left out Anton van Zyl…..
@Fern –
He certainly does not have dodgy hands and is not dodgy off the back of the scrum either.
Imagine trying to collect the ball with the locks arse being pushed up your nose every time.
(but don’t tell anyone else because apparently our frontrow dominates-Not…or not yet?)
@SA Barbarians – SAB a big scoop for your team, hope you guys know how to drive a Ferrari.
@SA Barbarians –
Nothing convenient about it. Van Zyl hasnt been playing worse at WP. Or do you think he has?
@superBul –
Only how to wreck it.
Hellooooo St Petersburg…
Kindly go look at your Profile and update Name & Surname.
Happy blogging here
@Supa Die Bloubul – @superBul – Hi Super, yes if true it would be a scoop indeed. The Vermeulen Ferrari has been performing very nicely in the blue and white hoops, so it depends on the player.
Supa, Van Zyl has stepped up if anything, don’t you think?
Why anyone would fiddle with the current Bok back 3 heaven knows, Dewalt Potgieter impressed me. Next year will be a battle royal in the Bulls camp to get into that back 3.
@Supa Die Bloubul – Shitty comment – refer to the log and points difference for perspective
@SA Barbarians – NO< NO< no that one is not a Ferrari, maybe a Mahindra
@superBul – Agree on the Bok back 3
@SA Barbarians –
If he stepped up, why would I have him on the list then?
Imo Van Zyl and Vermeulen hasnt been playing better or worse. Both played good at their previous provinces. Van Zyl has only played a handful of CC matches in a CC withour top players, so its actually a bit to early to judge him. Vermeulen is playing well, but he played just as well in Bloem.
@superBul – Will concede a 4X4 Mahindra, real workhorse , lots of power, not proven yet. early days.
@superBul – Majority of rugby fundi’s rate Vermeulen very high when provincial bias is overcome
@superBul – 🙂
Jeez, really don’t know what te feel bout Habana’s move. Wing is not a pivot player imo. Should have spent the money on Olivier, or Dup bothers.
As a WP fan I am not really that existed, must say.
@Supa Die Bloubul – Good point you make everyone that looks good now will still be tested when the Boks are back.
138@SA Barbarians –
Yes, I see our B-team are equal on logpoints with WP. Not bad for a bunch of 23 year olds.
@superBul –
Ja super. Some supporters are getting a bit carried away with players or scrums dominating when those same players or scrums couldnt do it when all the best players are available. I guess the proof will be in the s14 again.
@Supa Die Bloubul – Quote
Supa Die Bloubul
August 23rd, 2009 at 7:07 PM
@superBul –
Only how to wreck it.
Unquote
So the above statement only applies to a few exceptions who thought they were in CT for some surfing eh?
@isigidi –
Buite Mossie behoort hy goed te wees. Baie ervaring van die Bokke daar.
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