This is the question on the lips of many, jus who should play No 8 for the Bokke?
In South Africa the debate is still continuing over who is our premier No 8.
Obviously everyone has their favourite when it comes to the player that should be the link between the forwards and the backs, but let’s compare the candidates.
In the past few months Willem Alberts, Duanne Vermeulen, Ryan Kankowski and Pierre Spies have been mentioned as our best No 8’s. Let’s look at them critically and objectively and consider their weak and strong points, if starting in the current Bokke set-up.
Willem Alberts:
The Lions No 8 has been playing good rugby during the Curry Cup and has performed well over the past 12 months or so. Playing in a struggling Lions team Alberts is often used to get his team over the advantage line.
The old Monnas boykie is a strong, powerfull ball carrier who carries two or three defenders with him over the the advantage line. From 5m out, Alberts is very difficult to stop. Being so big and strong makes Alberts win collisions as well.
However, Alberts might just be too slow to be a modern No 8. At Test level rugby is played at the quickest pace and at least one loose forward needs to be as quick as the backs. With Brussouw and Juan Smith playing at 6 and 7 respectively, the Bokke need a pacy No 8. (Brussouw and Smith are both excellent players and have their own fine qualities, but they are not really known to be the quickest around the park. Yes, they are quick enough to run 15m to the next ruck, but often we see Spies, Bakkies, Matfield or Bekker get to the ball first when when a ball is kicked through).
Thus, Alberts won’t fit in the set-up when Brussouw and Smith plays. Also, Alberts is not competitive enough in the line-outs and our Bokke place huge emphasizes on competing in the line-out, from front to back.
Duanne Vermeulen:
The Western Province loose forward has recently made a move from Bloemfontein to the Cape. At the Cheetahs Vermeulen had often been used as No 8, however, since Vermeulen made the move to WP, he has been playing at blindside flank.
Vermeulen likes his rugby hard and tough. He provides the grunt WP needs since they prefer to play the “fetcher” (Luke Watson) at the back of the scrum. Vermeulen is a strong ball carrier and get through loads of work around the field. He doesn’t mind taking contact and often wins the collisions. He can be used as a strong line-out option at the back of the line-out. He also makes turnovers every now and then.
He has been playing consistently good rugby the past few years, although he has been injured for the first part of the CC.
With Duanne Vermeulen not getting game-time at No 8 it’s difficult to compare him to the other No 8’s objectively. He did well when playing at the back of the scrum at the Cheetahs, but that was almost a year ago. Can we still judge him on that performance?
Although he is a strong line-out option, he doesn’t compete enough on opposing ball. Like Alberts, Vermeulen is not nearly as quick as Kanko or Spies around the field. We need a quick No 8, no question.
Vermeulen is a solid option, and won’t let you down, but he does not seem to have that elusive X-factor.
Ryan Kankowski:
The debate between who is better, between Kanko and Spies have been continuing for years now. This is probably due to the fact that they are the same “type” of player.
Kankowski has been playing behind Spies in the pecking order during the past year and has mostly warmed the Bokke bench.
When he’s had his chance at Test level before, he has done little to prove that he is better than Spies.
He is playing good rugby at the Sharks, during the CC. Kanko is an explosive runner and his speed is his strong point. He often out-runs the backs and has been involved in many tries, running like a wing.
Kanko is a tall, lean and pacy No 8 who can side-step and he is often used as a 8th backline player. He is also a decent line-out option and quick to pick up and make a run from the back of the scrum.
Although Kanko is tall, he is not the strongest No 8 out there. When the game gets tight he often disappears and he definately prefers an open game. When playing against a strong pack of forwards he struggles to cross the advantage line and is often tackled backwards.
In short, he is a poor man’s Spies.
Pierre Spies:
Pierre Spies has all the attributes which it takes to be the best No 8 in the world. His old coach Heyneke Meyer called him a “frats” (freak), due to the fact that he runs as quick as the fastest backline players, bench presses as much as props and jumps a high as locks.
Spies is our current premier No 8 and would’ve had a World Cup medal, had he not missed the tournament through illness.
So what makes Spies the best?
Spies is an explosive runner like Kankowski and as quick as any back out there. In addition, Spies is strong and gets his team over the advantage line with great success. He is a strong and solid line-out option and has stolen many balls from opposing line-outs.
Give Spies enough space and he will run you ragged. What makes Spies better is the way he reacts in broken play. We often see a wing or centre break through our defence or kick a ball through… who’s behind and covering – Spies. He’s often the first or only one there to save the day. We see the same thing on attack when the opponents have to run back to save a try. Spies will often be there first to make the tackle. With Brussouw and Smith not that quick, we need Spies in the Bokke team.
His obvious weak points lie in 2 factors, his defence and his ability to control ball at the back of a scrum. He often misses the first tackle, something he has obviously worked hard on because it seems to be improving. A classic No 8 has “golden hands” and behind the scrum, he is not always up to scratch. In addition, Pierre is rumoured to disappear in tight games, which has lately proved to be a fallacy.
Spies has that elusive X-factor which makes him special. (I’ve included a link at the bottom which proves why he is feared with his X-factor.) Some believe that Spies is as close as we will get to the perfect No 8.
Playing with Fourie Du Preez regularly at the Bulls, they have a good understanding. Spies, du Preez and Steyn has proved themselves as a winning combination.
@Sharks_always _and_forever –
Middag my vriend. Geluk met jou span daar heeeeel bo op die log.
30@grootblousmile –
Daai spanne beter n groot kussing opbou want as die Bokke terugkom het hulle probleme soos die Chiefs in die finaal.
Wag, laat ek eers n Magnum gaan koop…dis vrek warm hier.
@Supa Die Bloubul – @grootblousmile –
dankie ouens….
ya ek dink nou sal dinge meer begin vorm wie waar gaan eindig.
kwas dink ek nou gaan sukkel , die selfvertroue het a lelike knou of 2 weg
dont be suprised and semi’s
sharks , bulls , wp and cheetahs in whatever order
29@Sharks_always _and_forever – I hear you’ve been taken to task on Voldy’s site for your allegiances here and supposedly slagging off certain bloggers whilst posting here…
moet se van die sharks jongitjies het opgestaan en begin a naam maak
soos monty , eish he must be the most inproved player in SA , hy was hondkak
nou speel hy met baie selfvertroue , en so ook mccleod op scrummy
34@Sharks_always _and_forever – I think the Kwas have shot their bolt…
This coming weekend will reveal a lot regarding semi-contenders for the CC
@grootblousmile – lol i ignored it for now
it was robzim that left me a little cry note
does it look like i give a shit ??? lol
36@Sharks_always _and_forever – Yeah, one moment I was saying that Monty Dumond was super kak, the next week he starts to shape…. he has improved a hellova lot, agreed !
38@Sharks_always _and_forever – Do me a personal favour…. hehehe… shorten your farking looooooooong Nick !!
Eishhhhhhhhh
@grootblousmile – lol ok will in a few
you know du ond has not missed a kick in 3 games
the okes on a roll
41@Sharks_always _and_forever – Impressive kicking… the guys seems to have a bit of speed too
@grootblousmile –
I read this morning that Pienaar has kicked only one of his last 8 kicks.
43@Supa Die Bloubul – Fork…. that’s pityful !
@Supa Die Bloubul – not sure if thats true but who knows
i still believe he is our best flyhalf , but then i also believe he should sought out his kicking game first
eith way we say it south africa now has 2 international class flyhalves
better then most other countries , and not long ago we were all worried
@Sharks_always _and_forever – Remember how i moaned that the Sharks never gave him a chance when the RP experiment was cut short by his injury. But count on the Sharks to play a guy out of position. What cost you a S14 semi spot was Frans Steyn at no 10.
we should seriously look after m steyn and ruan , they young and should both be there for the next world cup
i also believe steyn and ruan will help each other alot on each others short commings
this will just add to boths confindence
45@sharky_forever – Ahhhhh, thanks for the shorter nick…. heeeeeee haaaaaaa
Personally, Morne Steyn shines like a bright star at the moment…. Ruan Pienaar would be my bench option to cover scrummie and fly half.
@superBul – agreed , but i also maintain it wasnt F steyns fault but the coaches that kept playing him out of position
just look now that he is being allowed to blossom at 15??
and he will get better still no doubt
@sharky_forever – I would get Ruan back in that no 9 jersey , he is not a 10, get it into your heads. Look at Carter yesterday , thats how flyhalve plays. Natural is passing in kicking and summing up the situation.
@grootblousmile – either way boet remember the first est against lions before ruan got injured again
he was brilliant
fact is either one to start , we now have 2 world class flyhalves that will make the other teams pay
morne himself used to be a shit kicker , and look now?
awesome talent brought about by hard work
49@sharky_forever – Hell, I’ve been saying for a number of years now that Fransie Steyn’s best position is Full Back.
At most he is a very good make-shift No 12, after being a Full Back….. a fly half he is NOT !!!
I see Luke Mcalister and Conrad Smith is out of the Tri-nations.
Wonder if they’ll play Donald at 10 with Carter and Nonu in the midfield
we cant boet,,, remember there is no other backup for steyn either
2morrow what if steyn got injured??? rose??
👿
@sharky_forever – Totally agree, at last he found a place, sad that his career was so much halted , stopped in its tracks by selections. He has talent but nothing really developed yet. What is he going to play in Europe?
51@sharky_forever – Jus think how we could have punished the B & I Lions in the 1st Test, had Morne Steyn played the whole game…. hehehehe
No, seriously… they’re both good, but we cannot have a kak place kicker, full stop !
@sharky_forever –
Lots of player can fill in there if his injured for a game or two. Mossie, Habana, JPP, Pienaar, Steyn has all played fullback before.
@grootblousmile – agreed gbs , i too have always said he is not a 10,, 12 and 15 is his place
so far 15 he looks a shining star
lets hope and pray he does not get shifted around again
unfortunately though in france they say he will be 10 and 12
@superBul –
Not sure he found a place yet, think he is gonna play 10 at Racing Metro
@sharky_forever – I would say Kirsner, hope he gets top fit quickly
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